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Comment by pessimizer | Hacker News Reader

Very little? They have normal hormone profiles for men, not excessive ones intended to enhance performance. Moreover, they only take hormones the body would naturally produce, not unusual “performance-enhancing drugs”.

It's hard to generalize because the East German doping program evolved over time and eventually included other compounds, but the levels of testosterone esters that were administered to the female athletes (typically 25mg/week) were actually lower than typical HRT regimes for trans men.

> the levels of testosterone esters that were administered to the female athletes (typically 25mg/week)

Comparing generic "testosterone esters" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_ester - from the fifties to "testosterone esters" from today, without knowing exactly which kind of medication was involved or how it was administered, doesn't seem like a good way to reach any kind of conclusion.

Also a lot of oral test was used at the time, which as we know now is danger. Hepatoconverted hormones turn your insides into granuloma pate'. Even these days people are taking stuff like Methyltest to the point of having liver pain, which they supplement with tudca, milk thistle, etc.

Often PEDs are just biological hormones. In particular testosterone, HGH, and estrogen (for off cycling). It is definitely not as clear cut as “PEDs bad”. I tend to agree the impact physically is not high (e: for mortality) but most trans people have mental illness in their lives and the hormones they take can play a role in that.

It might be normal for a biological man. Is it unreasonable to question that giving a woman male hormones could stress the body?

If you are just "questioning" it for the sake of questioning, throwing shower thoughts out without doing a iota of research into procedures which are a century old? Yes. It's unreasonable for people to ask others to do their homework.

> without doing a iota of research into procedures which are a century old?

Assuming you're referring to procedures around altering one's body to resemble the opposite sex, there're no long term studies on the effects of modern drug treatments, such as lupron, especially when given to children and adolescents.

The highly ideological activists surrounding this issue have made this field a wild-west, and I fully expect in the coming years, there will be more and more similar stories coming from women in particular, who have been damaged by inappropriate hormone treatments prescribed for what turn out to have been unrelated mental health issues.

Why just transmen?

Because people with XX chromosomes who use supplementary testosterone have a distinct medical profile, whether or not they chose it voluntarily.

It would be weird, in fact, to wonder about trans women, hormones aren't that fungible.

We could also compare the East German athletes with bodybuilders if we wanted, of both sexes and any gender. Turns out they die early as well.

Also, if you're going to go wading into these waters online: the spelling trans men is preferred over transmen.

Edit to add: Trans men includes Buck Angel, so let's not pretend there's an arbitrary limit on testosterone use there. Much like cis men, some trans men want muscles much larger than any normal amount of testosterone will produce.

People who dope with PEDs use a higher concentration of testosterone than is naturally present. That is what causes the issues

Men die earlier than women, even after you account for accident, and testosterone is the leading candidate for why.

There's no argument from nature to be made about medically boosting hormone levels.

I’m going to get blasted for this.

But the various chronic illness support forums I follow have a lot of trans people with tons of serious issues.

Sounds like sampling bias to me.

Should it be ignored until it's confirmed to be sampling bias?

It’s something I have noticed. Not a scientific survey.

Maybe trans people are more likely to seek help online. Maybe I don’t count well enough.

I keep an eye out for issues I can offer advise for. I do notice trends after awhile.

The biggest is probably people that refuse to change to try a healthy diet.

Some groups just want to complain about how bad life is. Other groups are trying hard to get better. They take a very methodical approach to treatments and tests.

Lots of people simply need help to know what kind of specialist to see next. Or advice when doctors give really bad advice. (Happens all the time)

The really confusing ones are often taking lots of hormones.

I don't hang out in chronic illness support groups, but I have lots of transgender friends. I know quite a few people with chronic illness, and only one of them is transgender. Yes, transgender people frequently feel more safe accessing support online than in person. Sounds like sample bias to me.

Yes, given the likely outcome of raising the issue, including more discrimination against and negative rumors about trans people.

Or rather, no, like most things, it should be ignored until it's confirmed to have data. That is, things are not (true until fault is found), things are (non-true until factual support is provided).

If everyone is ignoring it then who is going to bother confirming it?

It should be ignored until sampling bias is found to be unlikely. Vague suspicions based on anecdotal experience with chronic illness forums are worthless.

Like long covid?

Like "I can't be arsed to engage, on your terms, with culture war bullshit".

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