East German Doping Victims Die 10 to 12 Years Earlier (2018)
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While the comparison with the general population is interesting, I would also like to see a comparison with Olympic athletes in general.
To be an Olympics athlete, even without doping, you have to be an outlier physically. In addition, even without doping, there is an intensive training regimen and specialized diet. There is also ultra competitive environment and high stress of competing in front of the whole world and knowing that a fraction of a second may be all the difference between glory winning the gold medal and the obscurity of 4th place. Finally, there is the whiplash where for a few weeks you are the center of attention and then when the Olympics are over, are more or less forgotten, even if you did win the gold.
This environment is pretty likely to have physical and psychological consequences, even apart from the doping, and it would be interesting to see what they are in comparison to doping.
West Germany is a reasonable control group.
Salient words at the very start of the article are "former athletes... suffer from poverty". East German Olympic athletes suffered poverty, which is a risk factor in any part of the world.
That's why I am asking about USSR statistics before USSR collapse - at that time weightlifters were treated very well, much like at US today, if not better.
Using USSR and/or Eastern Germany athletes prior to the reunion would provide some kind of baseline to compare to. As well as contemporary US athletes.
[1] https://www.rki.de/EN/Content/Health_Monitoring/Health_Repor...
[2] https://datacommons.org/place/country/USA?utm_medium=explore...
> On average, victims of East German doping die 10 to 12 years earlier than the rest of the population. And here's another alarming statistic: A victim of East German doping falls ill 2.7 times as often, and for psychological illnesses, we have calculated a factor of 3.2.
That's fair enough
> Against this background, calls to legalize performance-enhancing drugs are naïve and irresponsible.
Maybe, but this is a bit of a non-sequitur. Especially as the drugs were given unwillingly and with no consideration to individual conditions (and in excess doses)
It was more of an experiment than anything else.
>The magnitude in East Germany was likely unique. Unbeknownst to them, the athletes were given heavy anabolic steroids along with sex and growth hormones, often in extremely high doses. For many of the victims, the consequences have been dramatic, some of which are only appearing now, decades later.
The other thing which is missing in that rather myopic conversation is that after their careers are over most competitive athletes in general have a hard time adjusting to a more "mundane" life which is understandable given that they were training since their childhood to be the best in their respective sport. Money to some extent can bridge that gap but in most sports there isn't much money to be made in the first place. Now give this into the mix of the accumulated harm to the body - at that level you are taking that willingly into account - and some insane overdosing to somehow sustain the damage in a system with unchecked incentives (ideological view), you now have a very clear signal.
In classic bodybuilding where historically virtually all half-openly use/experiment with all kinds of PEDs, one can observe that with time and experience the dosings of e.g. TRT and GH are being finely titrated now. Additionaly because of the more open culture around that topic there is a solid understanding (in the more professional community at least) about the benefits and potential side effects.
Another more serious issue are the effects of extreme weight cutting but I'll leave it at that.
Agree. That is one serious elephant in the room.
Hmm. I don't know about that. There has been a spate of recent deaths of professional bodybuilders in their 30s and 40s despite more knowledge and health checks.
The problem with PEDs in competitive sports is that in many cases, higher doses mean more results. It pushes competitors and coaches out of what might be safe usage into high risk. Although use is admitted in bodybuilding, the vast doses and number of compounds is something most lie / downplay with only a few whistleblowers sharing real world usage.
> Another more serious issue are the effects of extreme weight cutting
Also a PED issue. Some of the Shelby Starne's stacks used in recent deaths of female bodybuilders are insane. Stacking 3 different diuretics, multiple types of stimulant... my god. They looked like they were designed to give people heart attacks.
We can say with some confidence that a small TRT dosage would be beneficial for almost all seniors. But small means really small, just enough to bring their hormones up to par with an average 50 year old body. Anything above that has non-negligible risks for any population and I hope no one will use PEDs with the assumption that they'll never pay a health price for it. I wish it were different but it is what it is.
[0]https://moreplatesmoredates.com/anabolic-steroid-family-tree...
The substances were newly discovered, and in the 1970s/80 nobody on Earth has ever used that human growth hormone on children or young adults. So, I guess the medical staff simply, systematically, tried a whole range of concentrations on their athletes. Those who then performed best in training were promoted to the Olympic team. Those who received too little were removed from the national team.
And those who received too high concentrations? They had their adolescent bodies messed up, but were simply neglected afterwards. A very cynical program indeed.
LAGH is rather new, and Im excited to see where it goes and how it affects treatments of those who want to minimize the frequency of administering it.
When making the decision voluntarily, you trade years of life for better quality of life. Which is a tradeoff many people would accept.
From the article:
“Freyberger: The magnitude in East Germany was likely unique. Unbeknownst to them, the athletes were given heavy anabolic steroids along with sex and growth hormones, often in extremely high doses. For many of the victims, the consequences have been dramatic, some of which are only appearing now, decades later.”
If you are well-informed about the decision. Most are not, and realistically will not understand the costs and benefits. That's why we don't let companies sell dangrous things freely.
> Which is a tradeoff many people would accept.
I'm not sure what that means. What tradeoff would many accept? It depends on the benefit and the cost. Of course people would take eliminating excruciating chronic back pain at the cost of losing a day of life, but they would not take eliminating hangnails at the cost of losing 10 years.
I'm sure you know that; my point is, what are you actually saying?
Everyone... just make-believe that we're talking about recreational drugs. Rather than a class of drugs that you and your social cohort do NOT take to get high, or to self-medicate your self-diagnosed mental health disorders. Perhaps that thought experiment will help?
That people who were (involuntarily) given high doses die early is not a surprise. Outside sports, steroids do have their place, even with such a seemingly serious drawback.
But yeah, articles like these are used to drive fear and bans for a lot of drugs. Then they wonder why so many people fall for homeopathy. Because they can't get anything else, that's why.
OP is likely getting downvoted because the East German doping victims weren't "accepting a tradeoff", eh?
It probably altered my view on doping.
Because so much money is involved in sports, I think we should legalize it even knowing that it has these health effects.
People volunteering to test performance enhancement will improve our understanding of human biology. If everyone knows they kill you, people will search for versions that do not over time and will be able to weigh risk/reward.
It's a perverse set of incentives designed to exploit the underclass into becoming celebrity gladiators for the entertainment of the masses. It is a free choice and so on, but let's not pretend it is a randomized sample of humans in a double-blind study conducted with ethical oversight.
The amount of college graduates is SIGNIFICANTLY higher for them then the average US population. You can't really make the argument that they are an exploited underclass when they are one of the best paid and educated in the country.
Even when they actually have a class to go to, they are dumbed-down like the one described here: https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/dumbed-down-math-classe...
Though, not all athletes, of course. The best player at my school was a legitimate mechanical engineer! Most of the rest were business majors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoop_Dreams
It's well worth a watch.
But that being said, judging whether athletes are exploited by the characteristics of those who make it all the way to becoming professionals is a little like judging where to put the armour according to the holes in the planes that come back from bombing missions.
The road to becoming a professional athlete is one of filter after filter after filter, with those who get injured cast aside like fruit that has been squeezed. COllege athletes, for example, make millions for the system but are prohibited by university rules from receiving pay or other compensation.
Only a few of them make it to becoming professionals every year. The rest have to go get ordinary jobs, and if they have a bum knee, cognitive issues from concussions, or any other problems, well, too bad for them.
This is especially acute in a country where health care is tied to employment and not part of the social safety net.
Imagine a 10 year girl competing against another 10 year maxed to the extreme on steroids.
Figure skating has kept them out of trouble, focused and with many great life lessons. Lots of good quality friends that are driven to succeed.
As a dad, can’t really ask for more.
No need to guess such things, just ask!
ISI is amazing at keeping kids competing against others at proper skill levels and ages.
That's more Mengele than a sports ethic though...
Sports are not test-labs...
They are ordered by their coaches to take the drugs, and if they refuse orders from their coach their elite sporting career is over.