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> This sounds similar to what is going on in Germany. We also have reports of systematic hospizalization where ambulant treatment would be possible and recommended. Intubations which aren't required and actually harmful and traumatizing. Same reason - financial incentives.

Never heard of that in any of a variety of news sources I consume, without a credible source I heavily doubt it. Instead it seems like doctors currently urge people to take precaution (like getting vaccinated) to keep them away from hospital because of the work load.

> Recently went to the doc for a normal cold. Was standing in a small unventilated corridor for half an hour with several coughing people.

A lot of doctors now offer visits via video chat, if you need a sick leave for work it's often enough just to call the doctor and they send you the papers.

True, there are problems with resistant bugs in hospitals and there are problems with testing facilities. The 'ashamed, stupefied and angry' feeling in Germany however can't be generalized like that: Some feel like they're living in a dictatorship because they have to wear a mask, some are angry because of the unclear and reactionary handling of the pandemic on a political level, some don't believe in science but follow alternative medicine or just think all of it is a big hoax, and there probably many more reasons people have.

Overall, Germany still has a pretty good record on keeping people alive while never using really hard measures. What we really could use though is a more civil communication.

> > We also have reports of systematic hospizalization where ambulant treatment would be possible and recommended. Intubations which aren't required and actually harmful

> Never heard of that in any of a variety of news sources I consume,

And I heard exactly the same about Italy from news sources that no one in their right mind would trust, which actually corroborates your point.

https://www1.wdr.de/daserste/monitor/sendungen/gefaehrliche-...

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article207311157/Cor...

also check interviews of Prof. Klaus Stöhr - he mentions that regularly.

> A lot of doctors now offer visits via video chat, if you need a sick leave for work it's often enough just to call the doctor and they send you the papers.

they need my physical HI card every quarter ...

> Overall, Germany still has a pretty good record on keeping people alive while never using really hard measures. What we really could use though is a more civil communication.

Deaths per infections is relatively high compared to other EU countries. Again, check Prof. Stöhr interviews.

The WDR link discusses different opinions on intubation as well as the fincial incentives. It even mentions that guidelines got adjusted which led to less invasive care. The second link is very 'Welt'-typical, at first using almost tabloid language only to then not delivering on the promise. The interviewee goes into the topic of hospitals having the wrong financial incentives for optimizing the duration of intubation but doesn't accuse a systemic wrong-doing or patient harming. Fair enough, the system is not perfect but it's far from "systematic hospitalization where ambulant treatment would be possible and recommended". Not sure about Prof. Stöhr, I read some of his criticism on how the pandemic is handled regarding schools, the idea of a mandatory vaccine and things like country wide measures vs. more local adjusted measures. I didn't hear him saying there is a _systemic_ problem of wrongly administered intensive care just to make money.

> We also have reports of systematic hospizalization where ambulant treatment would be possible and recommended. Intubations which aren't required and actually harmful and traumatizing.

Source?

BTW - it's only an anecdote, but a coworker in DE had a very different experience. After a week of significant symptoms but self-administered rapid tests coming back positive, they contacted the hospital for a checkup. Upon entry they received another rapid test: as soon as it came back positive, the hospital verified that their lungs were functional and then sent them home as quickly as possible.

> Recently went to the doc for a normal cold.

Why see a doctor for a regular cold? I've never heard anyone do that here in Sweden.

Sometimes these days it feels like people forget cold exists. They catch a cold, get mild symptoms, and their first thought isn't "oh, I'm glad it was just a cold and I quickly recovered" but "wow, good thing I got vaccinated, these covid symptoms were really mild".

because I need a doc's certificate to show my employer?

Ok, I expected some kind of treatment. We do need the same certificate in sweden too, but only from the 5th sick day or so and I think they give certificates for regular cold over the phone.

Exactly to avoid the thing you are complaining about doctors are allowed to give those out over phone during the pandemic.

they need the card at the beginning of a quarter. I was sick few days ago.

That is not a legal requirement, no. (not just for AUs, but a bunch of other things too it has been waived, again so that people don't need to go visit their doctors in person during the pandemic if it can be avoided. You can call a doctor you never went to for a sick note or a video consultation)

me ask woman on telephone of doctor that me coughing and headache - me need coming or this fine? she - yes you come must ... end of story

There has been an exemption to this rule for a while now. If your doctor doesn't do it, find one who does.

As for hanging around in a waiting room, I agree it's insane on many levels. I usually ask very directly if it's okay to come back in a while instead of waiting around. Though my primary health care provider has people with a cold wait outside in their garden, which is much better if you come prepared.

https://www.dak.de/dak/ihr-anliegen/corona-telefonisch-krank...

Source? Because that sounds like a whole bunch of conspiracy theories packed together.

It's because it is. The money they get from intubating and all care required covers the cost and makes a little profit, but there is no reason at all why they would do that to a person that doesn't need it. It takes a heavy toll on the doctors and nurses too. If a hospital director would run rampant and tell docs to willy nilly intubate someone it would be all over the news and doctors wouldn't agree to it either (they are in very short supply in Germany and wouldn't bother putting their reputation on the line).

You also have to be aware that around 25% of all Germans are in one way or another prone to believe in conspiracy theories, e.g. great reset and so on. Sadly I only have a German source on this, but this was a major point of discussion in the long running "Mitte Studie" which is one of the best and most rigorous studies about Germans and their political beliefs.

source for what? you're welcome to use google btw. might save us some time.

One can make any statement and if the "opposition" wants to see some proof you just deflect it and require them to bring proof that your statement is incorrect? That sounds incredible one-sided.

i'm asking for what do you want a proof ...

> Intubations which aren't required and actually harmful and traumatizing.

If this happened you certainly need get it to a lawyer. It is not much, but there are some way for recourse. You almost certainly have permanent damage after intubation.

not me and not anybody I know. for what it's worth I don't know anybody who got any health issues from corona much less having to seek medical help.

https://www1.wdr.de/daserste/monitor/sendungen/gefaehrliche-...

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article207311157/Cor...

Unsafe Doctor waiting rooms and dubious testing kits in Germany are some big claims that need some serious sources to be taken as truth.

Particularly if said by a person that says “Arab Familienclans”.

oh really?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s157CbfS5xg&list=PLuiYhcgFTm...

> Unsafe Doctor waiting rooms

what source? it's trivial to verify. visit a couple of doctors in the city of a large German town and count number of people sitting in a room with special notice to those who are coughing and sneezing ...

> dubious testing kits

I'm not aware of systematic audits of test kits. In Germany a device is considered alright if it has a CE printed on it and maybe some other numbers. That's a usual source of many problems with food, toys etc. nothing new here. Also it's currently in the media that not all test kits respond equally to Omicron - so, it's not like they are standardized. They are now starting device specific audit to check for sensitivity.

>In Germany a device is considered alright if it has a CE printed on it and maybe some other numbers.

No. I'm a software engineer for clinical studies and medical devices and this is not true for any medical device, which includes antigen tests, at all. Also these tests had a time limited special permit which ran out a few months ago, which is why they were able to be sold. here is a FAQ about antigen tests: https://www.bfarm.de/DE/Medizinprodukte/_FAQ/Antigen-Tests/f...

>Die Neubewertung hat ergeben, dass ein gravierender Versorgungsengpass und damit das Interesse des Gesundheitsschutzes an einer Sonderzulassung entsprechender Tests nach § 11 Abs. 1 MPG durch das BfArM nicht mehr besteht. Diese Bewertung wird ab dem 15. Juli 2021 für die Antragsbewertung aller laufenden und neu eingehenden Anträge nach § 11 Abs. 1 MPG zugrunde gelegt.

https://www.fr.de/panorama/horror-mandarinennetz-12204896.ht...

seems like you're up for a surprise.

I'm not aware of systematic audits of test kits

PEI has been validating tests for months.

https://www.pei.de/DE/newsroom/dossier/coronavirus/coronavir...

> Germany is also infamous in EU for its antibiotic resistant hospital bugs like MRSA.

Never heard that this is a problem in Germany. Maybe because Poland is so much worse in regards to healthcare.

https://www.scinexx.de/news/medizin/deutschland-bis-zu-20-00...

https://www.zdf.de/verbraucher/volle-kanne/studie-zu-kranken...

https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/sepsis-deutschland-kr...

> Never heard that this is a problem in Germany. Maybe because Poland is so much worse in regards to healthcare.

Then you are not well informed.

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