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Comment by Pyramus | Hacker News Reader

> the people who are forced to take the vaccination without their consent and in violation of their conscience.

Your imagination got the better of you here - nobody will be forced to vaccinate, especially not without their consent. Similar to how nobody comes to your car and forces you to wear a seatbelt.

Germany's constitution is quite clear about this, for apparent, historic reasons.

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So, how is paying a fine (as in eg. greece) not a form of "force"? In one way, if you're rich, you can pay for your right not to wear a seatbelt.. i mean, get the vaccine, but for normal people, the current measures are basically them being forced to do something that they don't want to do.

The fine is a punishment, not a force.

Come now...

You won't be physically forced to, but you also won't be allowed to do most of the things we normally consider that people have a right to do unless you comply. That's really a non physical way of forcing compliance (like saying I'll fire you from your job unless you agree).

The article says that Germany is planning to make the shot compulsory, literally this article that these comments are ostensibly discussing, in the second paragraph, so I'm not sure where you got the idea nobody is going to be forced to get vaccinated, but the gaslighting isn't appreciated

You won’t be forcefully vaccinated. But you can be fined for not taking the vaccine and you can be restricted in what jobs you work in. That’s how it works with the current limited vaccine mandate for measles.

And how is that not forcing?

Because this is not forcing?

I'm going to stand in front of you and not let you into your home until you give me $100.

I'm not _forcing_ you give me $100, not at all. It's just that if you _choose_ not to give me $100 I will continue to stand in your way and prevent you front getting inside.

It's really disgusting. Some politician invented that "obligation is not enforcement" talking point and now all those tag-alongs just repeat it without thinking about it for a second.

An obligation that is not enforced is not an obligation. A decision that only stays voluntarily as long as everybody complies was never voluntarily in the first place.

I'm usually a very phlegmatic, law-abiding citizen but man, where does this love for newspeak and doublethink come from, all of the sudden?

But it is. All laws are "enforced" in some way, just because sometimes it's not physical force doesn't change that. As soon as there are artificially created "consequences" and penalties, you are forced.

When someone is "forced into early retirement" do you think that means that police dragged him away?

Yep, police or a guard can drag him away if he will show at work. He cannot pay a $100 fine or take a shot and continue to work like before. :-/

I don’t think you are aware of the definition of “to force”. It does not refer only to physical force.

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