Comment by nbzso | Hacker News Reader

Comment by nbzso | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

Apple changed my life twice.

First they introduced me to structured and functional way of thinking about designing UI (with old MacOS X HIG). Practically gave start of my career with this.

And in the last several years in series of decisions they forced me to completely revision my view of what hardware and software I use for my personal and professional computing.

The power of industrial design is still with them (almost tempted me to fall again in the rabbit hole with the new MacBook Pro), happily for me they are run by marketing and never ending expansion, not by product people, and as a result regularly they produce utter crap - mouse with charging port under the body, faulty laptop keyboards, the thrash can, and now the notch. So I dodged "the bullet".:)

On a more different level of thought, we as consumers rarely take a moment to think about the implications of creating a monopolistic monsters and how this relates to our future as a professionals or individuals.

DMCA will never be reformed with balance in mind. More likely will be transformed towards version 2 with more power for the corporations.

>now the notch.

I was going along with you until this. I'm quite happy with the upcoming notch on the new MBP. If I can get extra height out of my screen by the height of the menu bar, then I consider that a win. My current menu bar contains nothing in the center where the notch will be, so I am losing nothing. The gain in screen height will be most welcome.

Be happy.:)

This is my use-case. I am sure that even designers will adapt, just because.

It works for you, but I cannot live with this abomination in my face, the gain in screen height is removed when you use your app in full-screen. I have a very sensitive eyes, this is part of my main workflow as a designer. When designing my eyes are all over the screen and this shape will attract attention even when is "hidden" by os.

But I totally understand, when coding I rarely look above the horizontal line of the screen (my favorite short-key: C-l).

P.S. There is another reason: I am spoiled from years of using nearly flawless Apple products, I cannot tolerate such design imperfection.

> the gain in screen height is removed when you use your app in full-screen.

But then you've lost nothing from the previous Macbook, right? And as far as I can tell without seeing one of the new ones live, it'll just look the same as the old bezel in full-screen - a thick black strip across the top, no?

Some analogy popped in my mind.

Imagine you have a sports car with beautiful design and powerful engine. You love it, but you want the new model, because you hope that you can cover the corners of the track with more speed and control.

The new model is here. You will have everything new, with one caveat. You can only use the full potential on the straight parts of the track. In the corners you will have the speed and control of the older model.

Then why buy the new model?

Because despite the very small gain in speed and control being only usable on the straight parts, you still get less fuel consumption, more speed in general, better aesthetics, the pedals and the steering wheel feel nicer and are more responsive, the seats are more comfy, the engine runs cooler and more silently, should I go on?

If with all of these you're still holding on to the old model, then that one is probably good enough for you and indeed you have no reason to buy the new one. That doesn't say anything about the new model, but says a lot about the old one and your needs and priorities. :)

Exactly.:)

That's why I stated: Use-case UX. Everything is a compromise. This is one that I cannot make.

And I am not alone in this. As a design driven company Apple should known better. And the better compromise is: the notch is there because of Face ID. Not because somewhere in the future it will be.

It is not. It is a f-in web-cam.

Someone stated that "there is no way to do a web cam without the notch". Can you imagine? And this is HN.:)

Using enormous "love & brand addiction" to sneak something on the user reminded me about iPhone 4 - "You are holding it wrong" fiasco. I remember clearly that a lot of people tried to convince me that I am wrong in my decision "not to buy".:)

Yep, and you're free to not purchase this model if it doesn't fit your needs.

> And the better compromise is: the notch is there because of Face ID.

The notch has nothing to do with FaceID. It's for the webcam. FaceID can exist without a notch just the same and no-FaceID. All it needs is to waste the area around the notch with a bezel, like the older models. As a rock climber who every few days has trouble unlocking the computer with TouchID, I also want FaceID on my Mac.

> Someone stated that "there is no way to do a web cam without the notch".

I mean, that's obviously untrue since we've had webcams in laptops for many years without notches. The more correct statement would be that you cannot reduce the bezel further than the vertical size of the webcam without a notch - or a retractable webcam like some laptops have (I wouldn't want that moving part on my MacBook though).

> reminded me about iPhone 4 - "You are holding it wrong" fiasco.

The notch is an aesthetic thing. The iPhone 4 antenna thing actually made the device unusable as a phone. I don't see how these are related.

In any case, I am fairly certain there will be (either as part of the OS or as a 3rd party add-on) an option to make the top stripe permanently black and out of the usable screen eventually. If I'm right about this, everybody wins - extra space for those who don't mind the notch, regular 16:10 screen for the ones offended by it.

It is hilarious, because Android phones already exist with under screen cameras. You'd think a company that is supposedly as spectacular as Apple claims to be would be on top of this tech.

It seems like things are looking up as they keep releasing things where Ive is no longer mucking things up.

The notches are cute, I still want an OG iPhone X for kicks. FWIW it's also standard 16:10 when the notch is blacked out, which they can do nicely thanks to the MiniLED.

As a curiosity what are you buying nowadays?

I have a 4-year-old iPhone 10 Because I'm equally unhappy with Google as Apple.

I have an Alienware laptop that I absolutely DESPISE because the MacBooks were a joke at the time I needed a laptop. Fundamentally I have a problem with Apple soldering wear items and replaceable parts to the motherboard. But the Alienware is just unreliable. But, so were the butterfly keyboards of the MacBooks.

Have you seen these laptops: https://frame.work/?

Yea. Louis Rossman gave them a glowing review. They will probably be my next purchase.

My solution is to invest more in custom PC builds (for the company) and after my recently refurbished MacBook Pro (2013/core i7/16gb ram/500 gb ssd/all the ports/ Manjaro) dies - Framework laptop.

By using a laptop as a mobile computer and dedicated powerful PC as a desktop I actually can ignore Apple chip advancements.

On a smartphone level, my personal solution is to use flip phone for calls and DeGoogled Android for necessary apps.

In the next 3 years I plan to move to Talos workstation (https://bit.ly/3lY6fpc).

> On a more different level of thought, we as consumers rarely take a moment to think about the implications of creating a monopolistic monsters and how this relates to our future as a professionals or individuals.

I would paraphrase "rarely take a moment to think about" with "actively ignore" here. At least that is my experience with most people whenever I bring such topics up.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com