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Comment by Grustaf | Hacker News Reader

> As a reminder, your Mac's battery will die at some point, and your Mac will become useless.

You can replace the battery yourself for like 50 bucks, or have Apple do it for 2-3x that. We have MacBooks from 2013 in perfect working order at home.

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You technically can, in 66 easy steps and about 1-3 hours [1], all the while risking damaging your laptop. Compare that with 3-6 minutes [2] for the actually replaceable battery on the Framework.

[1]: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Touch+Bar+2...

[2]: https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Battery+Replacement+Guide/85

I did it on two old MBAs in under an hour, never tried with the touch bar mac.

My 2016 touchbar MBP13 still has an excellent battery though.

Also, amortised over 3-4 years of use I don't really see why it matters if it takes 1 or 3 hours. I'll take a 2 mm thinner computer any day.

Replacing batteries for MBAs and MBPs are completely different experiences.

I did the same with an MBA, replacing its battery in less than an hour by virtue of the battery not being glued to the case, nor having to worry about hidden clips built into the case, nor having to carefully dig out the guts of the system and putting them back together.

The MBP is in a totally different class -- as iFixit shows, you don't start removing the battery until step 51! And they're not kidding: to get to the battery, you have to do things like remove the trackpad assembly and pry out the logic board assembly.

Sure, you can amortize the 1-3 hours of labor over years of device ownership, but at every step, you're dealing with delicate parts, putting you in danger of turning your expensive, trusty daily driver into a brick.

Batteries are a wear item, guaranteed to have to be replaced. Apple's managers, designers, and engineers could show more empathy for their customers by making it easier and less risky to replace their wear items.

I think the vast majority of people are like me, I'd much rather pay Apple 100-200 bucks to replace it, so that is what they optimise for.

I'd rather have a slim computer than one where I can easily change the battery, so they are indeed empathic to the majority of customers.

The group of people that actually want to open their computer and tinker with it is extremely small, it just happens to be loud and living on HN.

The thing is, I don't even know if you're paying Apple 100-200 bucks to replace the battery, or if you're paying them that much to replace the entire top case assembly, along with the battery, since it's so damn difficult to replace just the battery, I don't know if they even try. This is at least what they used to do.[1] I tried to research and find if this is still their practice but it was proving difficult. Very wasteful if so, and all likely just to make it difficult for the user to repair their own machine. (For what it's worth, recent MacBook Airs reportedly have Apple-replaceable batteries.)

[1] https://www.macrumors.com/2018/11/07/2018-macbook-air-batter...

Whatever else, I can guarantee you that they are not doing it on purpose in order to make it harder to repair them. They have just been prioritizing thinness.

> or if you're paying them that much to replace the entire top case assembly

The link says that "previous" MBAs had replacable batteries, and I know that 2012-2014 had it, so I don't think it was ever the case.

> For comparison, the previous-generation MacBook Air has a screwed-down battery that can be removed and replaced by Apple and its service providers without a top case replacement, in line with other non-Retina notebooks.

Why can you guarantee that?

Also, this article was written in November 2018, and here's what it says:

> the battery can be individually replaced in the new MacBook Air [...] In all other MacBook and MacBook Pro models with a Retina display released since 2012, when a customer has required a battery replacement, Apple has replaced the entire top case enclosure, including the keyboard and trackpad.

This implies that, at least from 2016-2019, they were replacing the entire top case assembly in MBP. I have no reason to doubt they still are. The article is mainly about the MBA so it is a little confusing, to be fair.

One final thing I'd like to add is that you can have a slim computer with a replaceable battery. You probably typed this comment from one [1]. I don't see why they couldn't adopt this adhesive strip approach for the MBP. Perhaps it would create a teeny less room for the battery, shaving off 30 seconds of battery life on a laptop that already has significantly better life (when new) than most? I don't think this """trade-off""" (if it even exists) is worth it. There are also plenty of non-Apple examples of laptops with replaceable batteries and a MacBook-level slim design. The XPS 13 apparently beats it: 15.35 mm vs 15.6 mm. The Framework Laptop is not far off at 15.85mm.

Of course, having the ability to replace everything else is great, but the battery should be a given. None of the other components are "consumable", though they might still fail eventually, or you might want to upgrade them.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMVDIMmbeoA, https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Air+13-Inch+Late+2020+B...

Consider also that anything that Apple does to make their product less repairable by the end-user also makes it less repairable by independent repair shops. I'm not sure why anyone would waste their time and money taking their Framework Laptop to a repair shop just to have them replace the battery when they could do it themselves in a few minutes (and you don't need to "live on HN" to follow basic instructions), but it's still an option. Whereas this is usually not an option with MacBooks.

I don't know if this was directed at me, but I'm not saying it isn't easier and cheaper to replace a Framework battery. My point is that almost nobody cares. You replace your battery at most once, after like 4 years. 100 dollars every 4 years is insignificant for almost all laptop owners.

I agree that they don't care. Perhaps they should, though? It's just unnecessarily wasteful (assuming they replace the entire top case assembly, which they probably still do) and expensive. By the way, it is currently $200 [1], but it could change. I don't think it's too unrealistic to imagine that Apple does this intentionally in order to get you to buy the latest model. Why keep investing in an old, dying laptop rather than just get a new one? It makes sense to invest in the Framework Laptop because everything is replaceable, including the mobo/CPU. But it doesn't make sense to invest in an old MacBook that might have other unforeseen, unfixable issues (unless by Apple for a fortune) in the future, even after a battery replacement.

If MacBook users could either replace the battery themselves (or take it to any repair shop if they somehow don't have a few minutes to spare), they wouldn't have to face the "repair or upgrade" dilemma until much later in the laptop's life. For Framework users, it isn't a problem at all.

[1] https://support.apple.com/mac/repair/service

I'd add that this quote is just innacurate. A batteryless MBP can be plugged in indefinitely.

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