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Comment by jtbayly | Hacker News Reader

But only if you make your app incompatible with all older iOS versions? Seems to me like not many people will benefit from this.m for some time to come.

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That’s always been true of these sorts of changes. But new apps often target the latest OS, and it’s common for existing apps to target “current minus one”, so it will only take a year or two for existing maintained apps to start benefitting from this.

There’s also a linker flag that lets you use this format on older OS versions. It seems to work (I tested as far back as iOS 13.4.1) but couldn’t find any documentation to guarantee it won’t cause issues https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/683596

with iOS it's not a problem

85% of all devices at already all on iOS 14

https://developer.apple.com/support/app-store/

15% is most likely too much to ignore. Most web developers have had to support IE11, which is at like, 3-4% tops.

I think the bigger problem is corporate environments, in my company, our B2B application sees IE11 usage at around 20-30%.

This. Hell, most corporate users are still using Windows 7 (I try to avoid working some place I can't have a Mac, but despite Windows 8 having been released in 2012 and 20 in 2015, I have never seen either in a corporate environment).

It is best to make your own decisions there based on some telemetry tbh. It will likely depend on your demographics but also upgrades may depend on your business model. For instance, you may be motivated to upgrade if you realize users who are on older iOS versions don't generate revenue.

As someone with a device locked on iOS 10 this makes me very happy. I have a desktop computer I bought in 2008 which is running Windows 10 and happy as a clam - and yet all my apple devices from before 2018 are essentially now bricks.

What model? iPhone 6S was released in 2015 and will be able to run iOS 15.

Also Intel PCs haven’t changed a fraction as fast as the iPhone did in last decade.

Limited to iOS 10 means an iPhone 5 or 5C. So you're talking about a phone which is eight or nine years old. Tell me, what non-Apple phone from 2012 would have given you better long term support?

My iPhone SE is from 2016 and is getting iOS 15.

What device do you have from 2017 that even shipped with iOS 10?

iOS 15 supports up to iPhone 6s wich was released in 2015

Windows 11 supports PCs with processors up to Intel Gen 8, wich was released in late 2017

I'm currently running Windows 11 preview on an i7 3970, circa 2012... It might not be "supported" at launch, but it works currently.

My iPad Air 2 will run IPadOS 15 and that was released in 2014.

> before 2018 are essentially now bricks

Quit being overly antagonistic, you know this is hyperbole because you are

> someone with a device locked on iOS 10

I feel like you think this means munk-a is merely refusing to update past iOS 10, but there are devices that simply can't. (The ones stuck specifically on iOS 10 forever are the iPhone 5 and 5c.)

Claiming devices from before 2018 are essentially bricks is still hyperbole because the iPhone 5c was released long before that, 2013. The iPhone 6s, released in 2015, will run iOS 15.

I think the original message was poorly worded, I think they were imagining that devices that can't run iOS 15 would essentially be bricks because every app maker would build their apps in this way that only works on iOS 15 devices. Of course, this will not happen. It has long been the case that developers need to balance the advantages of using techniques enabled in newer OS versions against the advantage of supporting a wider range of OS versions.

Well, as someone who stays on slightly old versions of iOS, that I can't even order food off of DoorDash is pretty frustrating. The reality is that people do in fact derelict these old devices under an expectation that everyone is rich enough to throw out perfectly functional equipment and replace it all the time. It is sad that Apple is actually the best at this :/.

I don't care about 3rd party delivery services but it looks like like DoorDash has a website so you can still be their customer.

It looks like their app requires iOS 13 which requires an iPhone 6s or newer (though it can run iOS 14 and will run iOS 15). The iPhone 6 won't run iOS 13, it had five years between its release and the release of an OS it can't run, that still seems like a respectable amount for a phone.

Apple is way better at supporting the longevity of their devices, through build quality and continued OS support, than the Android world is.

Given that my iPhone 6 cost $200 and I break a screen every 1-2 years, 5 years is more than enough. I’d never pay to replace a screen or battery on an old phone. I’d imagine a significant portion of devices have been accidentally smashed or dropped in a lake by that time.

>Well, as someone who stays on slightly old versions of iOS, that I can't even order food off of DoorDash is pretty frustrating.

Well, the idea with iOS/macOS is "Have a recent OS+Device, we change things all the time and demand that everyone moves along in 5-6 years or so".

With Windows it's "We support 20+ years old programs just fine. If you're OK with having to deal with 8+ layers of GUI code and legacy cruft, we're your thing".

It's not like this hasn't been the case for decades, for it to be a suprise...

Calling them 'essentially bricks' is calling them functionless, which they are not.

The iPhone 5/5c was released nine years ago. I'm just not crying for it. If your app dev isn't updating for iOS 15, you're stuck with the old version anyway. Sorry your decade-old device can't use the latest technology.

Well, I'll claim they are potentially worse than bricks, as they are riddled with remotely exploitable security holes (such as the various iMessage ones that come out every year)... like some kind of dangerous land mine in the shape of a brick.

I wouldn’t mind so much if I could have access to older software that still runs on the device.

This is a real problem for my device - I essentially can't download any "new" software since the app store only appears to make versions incompatible with the newest OS available - and my device (a 2012 iPad 4 Retina to be precise) refuses to update past iOS 10.3.3

these devices are nearly 10 years old

iPhone 5 is 9 years old, iPhone 5C is 8.

Oh sorry to clarify 2018 is when my partner got their most recent Apple device which will be able to run this update fine - our previous device is a Retina iPad from 2012. Re-reading my wording yea, I can see how that read as hyperbolic, sorry about that!

>and yet all my apple devices from before 2018 are essentially now bricks.

I doubt many 2017 and 2016 models are "now bricks", though "before 2018" might also mean "2012" or so.

In any case, none of them is a "brick". Even the unreleased Monterey version, post AS reveal, still supports tons of pre-2018 models:

MacBook: Early 2016 and newer MacBook Air: Early 2015 and newer MacBook Pro: Early 2015 and newer Mac Mini: Late 2014 and newer iMac: Late 2015 and newer iMac Pro: Late 2017 Mac Pro: Late 2013 and newer

And of course Big Sur continues to work on even earlier models.

A very similar story is true for iOS devices - which is in fact a much better story than vendor Android support (which usually is 3 years max) or Windows Phone (which was discontinued altogether).

I have an iPhone 6 and while it doesn’t have the new iOS it still has all sorts of useful functionality. Apple does great in this regard compared to say, Samsung. With Android devices you’re also dependent upon the carrier for updates, which is obviously not what anyone sane would desire.

> apple devices from before 2018 are essentially now bricks

That's not correct. My iPhone 6S is getting iOS 15 update too.

My iPad Pro from 2017 works like the first day, I wanted to update but besides a nicer design there is not need to update it’s just super fast at everything

Are you me? Same here, except mine is from 2015. Apart from a small chip on the edge of the screen, as a result of overzealous cabin crew, it works as well as it did on Day 1.

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