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Comment by aeharding | Hacker News Reader

Do you have a source? Anecdotally I've found clipless to make my power transfer more efficient. Some quick googling shows this seems to be true:

"Mean power output was higher using clipless pedals ( = 617 watts, SD = 112) than toe-strap ( = 572 watts, SD = 77), and flat ( = 566 watts, SD = 83)." [1]

[1] https://scholars.fhsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1118&c...

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In cycling, clipless = clipped in, which is of course confusing - I think the GP is referring to the same thing as you are.

Clipped pedals refer to pedals with toe straps. Clipless are pedals without a strap, but you clip into. And flat are ones you just rest your feet on.

From what I've read, although I can't remember the source, the difference doesn't really matter on flat surfaces, but clipless perform far better on inclines. I believe this has to do with the angle of the stroke relative to gravity causing some efficiency loss without a clip.

I was a life long flat pedal rider.

Started working at a bike shop during college and one of the first things roadies told me was they are indeed much more efficient because you can push AND pull on your pedals - generating a lot more power and making the ability to sustain that power a lot easier.

I think this is a myth - you don’t pull on your pedals to make you more efficient, I think it’s the fact you are not continuously having to adjust your feet as you would on flat pedals.

See https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/fitness-and-training/stop-p... for instance.

One issue I have with that bikeradar article is this quote:

>Undertake your next few leg-speed intervals at the same cadence (such as 105rpm), but aim to remain more firmly planted in the saddle, with your pelvis acting as a foundation for your legs. This will allow you to maintain chain tension through the entire stroke, eliminating the ‘thud’ through the top and bottom of the stroke (the ‘dead zones’) as your chain loses contact with the freehub

Anyone who experiences what the author describes as "the thud" is pedalling so badly that almost anything they do to improve their stroke is going to be huge win. I'm not sure his advice is on point for people who already have reasonable pedalling technique.

a better way to say what you might be saying is, "without locking your feet to the pedal, you expend significant energy with lateral muscle movements to keep your feet on the pedals"

I use clip ins now, have for about 5-6 years. I don't think you actually pull up.

you should actively pull up your leg so the down leg is not working extra to lift it, and the pull up muscles are different muscles so your idle down muscles are still getting a rest.

The pulling up of your leg results in easier pedaling overall, and it is relatively as if you are pulling up on the pedal. Should you actually then pull up? You should go for the most natural sustainable pedal motion for you. When I pedal I "visualize" my feet going in circles, not up and down, it helps me on the "over the top" and "across the bottom" parts of the circle. keeps me sinusoidal!

If you never pull up at all and you are pedaling and feeling tired, try pulling enough to remove the dead weight leg from the equation and you'll feel rejuvenated.

Honestly, go try biking by only pulling up. You don't pull up.

Bike more and you will, it's not particularly noticeable while normally biking. But I really notice it on sprints, but it's also noticeable even with smaller increases in effort over cruising.

It's also quite noticeable when you switch to clipless and go for a hard ride, suddenly new muscles will be sore.

Honestly, I pull up. I'm not pulling the pedal up, I'm lifting the leg and pulling my foot up, getting it into postion to push again, same as I would do for running.

you should try it, you can feel the relief in the pushing leg.

I'll go try it. Why couldn't you do that in flats?

You do it with flats too. Clipped in feet just makes it so you don't need to worry about where the foot ends up after that. But it's not a huge difference.

Just do one-legged drills for a bit. You definitely pull up when doing this. Transfer the same muscle activation to two legged cycling, and you're pulling up then too.

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