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Comment by dandanua | Hacker News Reader

I can't understand how some smart people still sympathize Russia and say it acts only for defense. Russia has made the first annexation in Europe since WW2 and effectively control another part of Ukraine.

Right now it looks like Russian logic is that every free person in the world is a potential threat to Russia. Because threat is anything that you don't control.

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It's more tricky than it seems. For example, do you support the right of people to self-determine? Should Scotland be allowed to secede from the UK and join the EU?

While elections in Crimea were clearly not "fair" and the method by which it "joined" Russia was nebulous, the peninsula is absolutely Russian-speaking. It's pretty likely that the population would choose to join Russia, if they'd been given the chance.

Not defending Russia here, but as I said, it's complex.

I am Russian-speaking. But also Ukrainian, English and a bit German. Is this a reason to occupy my country by GB?

Please stop spreading lies. Scotland self determination is peaceful. Crimea had its parliament. No one cared to vote until occupation and brainwashing by RF controlled propaganda spreading awful lies about Ukraine.

And there are no fair elections in Russia.

"Right now it looks like Russian logic is that every free person in the world is a potential threat to Russia. Because threat is anything that you don't control."

Don't you mean "American logic"? If not, have you looked at a political and military map in the last couple of years, as well as paid attention to the changes?

> Russia has made the first annexation in Europe

What an interesting choice of regions to single out.

Did the people of Crimea want to be in Russia or the Ukraine?

Many Germans in the Sudetenland were happy to become part of Germany in WW2, that doesn't mean anything. That was one of Hitler's excuses for invading and annexing early on. He took it too far (in the eyes of the allies) when he invaded Poland, though the Polish Corridor was formerly German as well.

Does "what the people of Crimea wanted" change whether or not Russia annexed the territory against the wishes of the current owners of the territory and against international law that Russia claims to respect?

It suggests that Russia isn't planning to annex "every free person in the world" as the parent comment suggested. They're taking blatant, aggressive advantage of the Ukrainian Revolution to expand their power and influence, and that's undoubtedly a bad thing to do, but I don't think it indicates any substantial risk to other countries in the region.

Transnistria in Moldova (1991), South Ossetia in Georgia (2008), Crimea and Donbass in Ukraine (2014). They've embraced USSR, claim to return territories, its representatives claims to bomb West. No worries?

Well, worries about what? I'd certainly be worried if I were in charge of a post-Soviet state with unresolved separatist movements, but I'm not sure that's really an issue the international community can solve. It's not as though these regions would be safe and peaceful if Russia weren't taking advantage.

Are you trolling? Insurgence and indifference, that's what happened in Donbass and Crimea. From start to end it is RF controlled operation.

No one in their mind would ask for "Russian peace", yet they are going to kill us. It is not possible to separate Russian speaking Ukrainians, there are no borders. I speak Russian, Ukrainian, English. For sure my city would be destroyed.

RF claims basically every country with Russian speaking population. Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Belarus. Germany maybe? Their politicians claims dominance over the world. They blame West on every problem, and people believe.

We don't know. They didn't have a free and fair plebiscite.

Russians want to live in Crimea, so they packed up peoples of Crimea and sent them to Siberia. Can you travel to Siberia and ask them, please?

I bet they would prefer to be a part USA, France, or Japan at least, if not brainwashed.

What's the answer to this question?

There were definitely some Crimeans who preferred to be part of Russia. But I don't think the referendum was free or fair. And even if we could say that 51% of them genuinely wanted to secede from Ukraine and join Russia, it doesn't change the fact that Russia annexed Crimea first, and then, lo and behold, the Crimean people wanted Russian rule all along. I don't think there's any way to square what happened with international law.

There's another devious tactic Russia uses which is IMHO even worse than the bogus referendum: They've started issuing Russian passports to Ukrainian citizens in the part of Eastern Ukraine that is controlled by the "independent republics" which are de facto controlled by Russia. So now, Russia can say, truthfully, that there are many Russian citizens in Donbass, and justify military escalation there as a purely defensive act responding to Ukrainian abuses of Russian citizens. Meanwhile, life in Donbass gets worse and worse, Russian passport or not.

If you really want to know just go there and ask around. But make sure you do not use your google account or log in to github while there.

I figured someone like Pew would've run a poll there but perhaps it's too dangerous to do so?

Any poll is subject to influences, cheating, biases, etc, etc... Just spend a week there during not so high season, so you meet mostly locals, and speak to some random people. It takes some effort probably but in my believe it is the only way to make at least a little informed opinion on any topic.

Russia is information autocracy state. TV controlled by state for more than 20 years. Average Russian knows all sort of weird things, basically everything that helps Putin. West is evil, Putin is the only choice, Ukraine is fascist state, Russian is superior culture.

Liberals are better, yet their culture is based on occupation, it brings joy. Annexation of Crimea have raised Putin rating to 87%.

If 55% wanted what about the 45%?

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