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Comment by runawaybottle | Hacker News Reader

I wonder if we’ll ever get to a point where a non-western autocratic government will carry out a hit job in a western country. Russia sort of does it with the poisoning, but we’d really see a true shift in power when the mafia does it in broad daylight similar to the Khashoggi situation.

The short list is China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia.

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Does Isreal count?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair

The really disgusting thing about that one is that Israel named a square after one of the killers.

Dulcie September, shot dead in broad daylight on a Paris street back in 1988, on the orders of the apartheid-era South African government.

Fernando Pereira, murdered by the French DGSE when they bombed the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland in 1985.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dulcie_September#Death

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior

Pereira is collateral damage, DGSE setup two bombs, one to make people evacuate the ship, one later to sink it. He went back to ship to retrieve a camera IIRC. So same are IRA phoning in before a car bomb explosion, some efforts to avoid loss of life in this case.

The DGSE ancestor (SDECE) did murder some Algerian independence militants and associates in Europe during the late 50s early 60s tho. Some of them being European, like some German arms dealers (https://www.theafricareport.com/46441/algeria-the-dark-side-...)

Collateral damage becomes a certainty when you start planting bombs everywhere. How could it not? One does not approve these missions thinking the chances are low (and I doubt one would care much if the civilians don't live anywhere that'll be able to kick up a fuss.)

It's still different from a targeted assassination.

Actually a Russian operative shot and killed a man (Selimchan Changoschwili) in 2019 in Berlin in a park in broad daylight. (And that wasn't exactly the first time Chechens were murdered on the street by operatives in Europe).

I know Iran is very likely responsible for 2 assassinations in the Netherlands,[0] so these things already happen.

0: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/08/iran-behind-tw...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapour_Bakhtiar in 1991 in Paris too...

Why doesn't poisoning count?

There was a Homeland plot point about hacking a pacemaker, which I believe was based on fears about Cheney's pacemaker (or continious flow device). What we recognise as a hit job is too overt and we've likely missed the covert reality.

Another way it might have passed us by if it was in a western country but not a western victim, eg Israel kills an Arab leader at a convention.

> There was a Homeland plot point about hacking a pacemaker

There's also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnaby_Jack#Pacemakers

Peruse the incomplete list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinations

>but we’d really see a true shift in power when the mafia does it in broad daylight similar to the Khashoggi situation.

Why is this interesting? I personally find the assassinations of Fred Hampton and Huey Newton far more interesting.

Also, the alleged David Kelly and Jeffrey Epstein are curious since they were officially rules as suicide but many people don't believe that line.

Yes, Fred Hampton's assassination was really, really interesting for anybody who read about political philosophy, or anybody interested with the concept of class struggle.

But i would be quite surprised if the hit on Huey was a government hit. His existence prevented another movement like the black panther to take place.

AIUI, Huey was murdered by someone in a crack gang. The CIA was fuelling the crack epidemic. I don't know how much tin foil it involves, but it seems plausible that the CIA used black on black crime to make sure no one cared about the murder.

> His existence prevented another movement like the black panther to take place.

I hadn't heard this, but I'm really not educated on the topic so that's not surprising.

Why is this interesting?

I suppose geopolitically it’s a form of shit-testing. They are probing the limits. Any escalation to this inevitably will lead to war (if someone misjudges and goes after a US diplomat, or official).

And I wonder if the west is close to a misstep. Right now the US is killing Iranian generals and scientists with impunity. All these things have limits.

Selimchan Changoschwili was shot in broad day light in Berlin Tiergarten, allegedly by russian agencies.

As other pointed out, its a fairly common practice even for western democratic government, for example French DGSE (CIA equivalent) assassination operations are called "opération Homo" and some of them are well known.

I'd be surprised if it isn't fairly common, but that most such governments are competent enough to keep things discreet (somewhat anyway).

Actually I think there are some good reasons not to engage in it. You certainly don't want to get into a tit for tat situation. Nor do you want to provoke the host country so much that they start piling on sanctions.

Definitely, but as mentioned in some sibling comments, some regimes simply don't care.

Iran already does that:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/27/world/europe/iran-disside...

Many countries carry out extra-judicial killings not uncommon at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Flavius

There has already been numerous autocratic governments carrying out numerous hit jobs. The United States government has declined to pursue some of them even though the facts aren't disputed all that much.

The US has a long story of killings, torture and kidnappings in Latin America.

Orlando Letelier, by the Chilean government, a car bomb in broad daylight in Washington, DC.

You missed North Korea.

Was perhaps one of the most surreal assassinations ever:

Exiled brother of a dictator, in an airport surrounded by people and well trained anti-terrorist police forces, killed with a bioweapon, a murderer who thought she was on a Japanese reality TV show, wearing a tshirt saying "LOL" rubbing nerve agent into his eyes and running away with little to no consequence.

She's walking free right now after a small sentence, enjoying life. None of the NK operatives have ever been identified.

I'm dying to know more details -- I did a bit of googling and came up empty. Can you point me to where I could learn more?

Wikipedia is pretty up to date https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Kim_Jong-nam

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