Saudi Arabia applied for diplomatic immunity for ten security guards in Norway
dagbladet.no
dagbladet.no
I was the same, the only difference is my passport and government I criticize. Yet I live a normal life, never felt threatened or in danger. It made me realize how important and fragile are those values.
Let us not forget the women's rights activist Loujain al-Hathloul - known for protesting the ban on women driving - being inhumanely tortured, including sexual violence, now facing terrorism charges.
What is it like to be a liberal Muslim in the West? I'm not one, but I am a member of an ethnic minority with similar stereotyping. I have neighbors and coworkers who are Muslims and Hindus and frankly, the ones I'm least comfortable with are the right-wing Christians. Everybody else just wants to get along; I'm upset with the people who announce that anyone who isn't just like them should be coerced out.
Women who choose to wear hijabs aren't without consequences even in western societies because they have social reprocusions levied against them if the don't wear hijabs. It isn't like they are truly free to make that decision.
I've always found that definition useless. Imagine a restaurant where a black person can legally sit-down and order food, but where the townsfolk will beat them up if they do. They are legally not forbidden, there are just consequences! They are free!
Sorry, but freedom from consequences is really an integral part of freedom. Some consequences are unavoidable, but most of them time "consequences" are just oppression through social means as opposed to government means and are not nobler for it.
I expect it's probably going to get a lot worse before it gets better though. The Saudi Royal family is not going to let itself be drained of wealth slowly and go peacefully into the night. They are going to claw each others' eyes out to maintain their status and privilege. MBS will probably get his comeuppance at some point at the hands of one of his relatives or via some Iranian proxy.
If you're being a jerk showing off your wealth, at least have some taste. The saudi king's display of wealth is tasteless at best.
Depends. I lived in Dresden(Germany), while Obama visited the city. It was total madness for a day, with major roads closed etc. But it probably was only half on US orders, but on local politicians who wanted to impress the "yes we can" president. Who cares for the actual local residents, when theres great politics going on?
(in TV I only heard local people praise that day, but from people I met during the day, not so much)
Edit: this incident happened a few months before Khashoggi's assassination per the article. It seems like the Khashoggi case is part of a bigger campaign.
In truth if it had been just another activist that wasn't a journalist at the Washington Post the US media probably would not have kicked up a fuss and we wouldn't even know his name.
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20201016-austria-on-gu...
I'm glad to see European countries protecting their citizens from hit squads.
This sounds like they're amateurs, sending 10 at once. Other nations do that probably one by one to stay under the radar.
> Other nations do that probably one by one to stay under the radar.
It depends. For example Mossad allegedly used 26 persons when assassinating Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahmoud_Al-Ma...
It doesn't sound like they necessarily came in at the same time though.
holy shit! Imagine your passport stolen and used to casually commit crimes on foreign soil. how much shit you might end up in?
https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/2020/12/14/navalny-fsb-...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/sexual-assault-sa...
https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2019/08/saudi-students-escap...
https://www.npr.org/2020/01/24/799143167/u-s-wont-hand-over-...
Not to be forgotten.
This is the conclusion of the all the independent experts who have reviewed the public report behind the U.N.'s accusations. That report failed to find evidence proving the theory, but instead simply found unknown things it couldn't explain, which it pretended was evidence.
This is a common flaw in such forensics reports. When there's evidence, it's usually found and reported. When there's no evidence, investigators keep looking. Todays devices are complex, so if you keep looking, you always find anomalies you can't explain. There's only two results from such investigations: proof of bad things or anomalies that suggest bad things. There's never any proof that no bad things exist (at least, not in my experience)."
https://blog.erratasec.com/2020/01/theres-no-evidence-saudis...
United States and many other western governments use their own embassy networks for clandestine operations and it is well established fact.
Never gonna happen though
Setting up secure, verifiable communication channel that is available regardless of disaster or other difficulties would be hard.
I understand most people are used to Zoom and equivalents, but observing is different from making decisions at the highest level. I also think that some of the communication is of the kind that you would want to be sure cannot be recorded.
> In the early summer of 2018, Norway received an unusual request from Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman's government.
Like, think how in the old times it was traditional that messangers carrying news from one kingdom to the other were untouchable, they had free passage and it was a very bad idea to harm them in any way.
In more practical terms it's so that countries which aren't on best of terms don't use their diplomats as bargaining chips. It would be super easy for say Russia to arrest an American diplomat on fake charges and just keep them in jail(or you know, the other way around). Diplomatic immunity prevents that - it basically says that as long as you are on a diplomatic mission you are immune from prosecution in that country, and for good reason.
No matter how you put it, diplomatic immunity disproves the idea that everyone is equal under the law. You can't have diplomatic immunity and also have everyone equal under the law. It's a logical contradiction. You have to choose one or the other or else it's impossible to know where to draw the line.
Wow, I wonder how would you ever attract anyone to that job then, if it basically comes with a "disposable" label, and if the government basically says "go and represent us, but if things go tits up we'll just replace you".
>>No matter how you put it, diplomatic immunity disproves the idea that everyone is equal under the law.
Well, that idea was never true, going back thousands of years. Diplomats are effectively guests and get special treatment, like any guests do. If they abuse our hospitality then they get kicked out, simple.
>>You can't have diplomatic immunity and also have everyone equal under the law.
Of course you can - after all this isn't a loophole, it's specifically agreed upon and allowed in the law of our democratic societies.
>> You have to choose one or the other or else it's impossible to know where to draw the line.
Why would it be impossible? It's pretty easy in fact - diplomats have immunity in order to carry on their jobs. Just like the American president(and most presidents and leaders in fact) is immune from prosecution while in the office - that's also not "equal under law". Or like police officers are immune from certain prosecution, how journalists are, private investigators etc. The rules are equal - but the rules also say that certain people are exempt. I just don't see the issue here.
Most jobs these days are disposable, attracts plenty of people. Just pay a regular average salary and people will be lining up.
>> Why would it be impossible? It's pretty easy in fact - diplomats have immunity in order to carry on their jobs.
Clearly it's not. It's a slippery slope. For example, even corporations today have more rights than people, they can move to a new country and not have to apply for citizenship like people do. Corporations also pay lower taxes in many countries, also they can commit crimes and get away with only small fines; they are never jailed or terminated. By extension, corporate executives often get better treatment than regular people when it comes to certain crimes. It's also well know that rich people pay much lower % taxes on average. Nobody is equal under the law because we've allowed ourselves to diverge from this simple principle.
We've never diverged from it because it was literally never true, at any point in history. But back to the main point - maybe look at it this way: diplomats are offered diplomatic immunity as a courtesy. Countries basically say to each other "look, we're not going to bother your representatives, if you don't bother ours, deal?". Same reason why embassy terittory is technically out of jurisdiction of the hosting country. You could also ask "how is that fair?". Well, perhaps it isn't - but international diplomacy requires some concessions on each side, and that's the concession we agreed on to have good relations with each other. Diplomats are not bothered, embassies are not bothered - but both can be kicked out if needed. Good arrangement if you ask me.
If a diplomat is afraid of their host government, whose interests do you think they are going to represent. Yours or theirs?
What's even the point of sending over a representative if they're not going to represent?
Also, while you could probably find people who would be willing to be cannon fodder in an unsafe diplomatic job, they're unlikely to also have the finesse, savvy and communications skills your country would actually require of its representatives to be adequately represented.
The short list is China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia.
There was a Homeland plot point about hacking a pacemaker, which I believe was based on fears about Cheney's pacemaker (or continious flow device). What we recognise as a hit job is too overt and we've likely missed the covert reality.
Another way it might have passed us by if it was in a western country but not a western victim, eg Israel kills an Arab leader at a convention.
There's also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnaby_Jack#Pacemakers
Exiled brother of a dictator, in an airport surrounded by people and well trained anti-terrorist police forces, killed with a bioweapon, a murderer who thought she was on a Japanese reality TV show, wearing a tshirt saying "LOL" rubbing nerve agent into his eyes and running away with little to no consequence.
She's walking free right now after a small sentence, enjoying life. None of the NK operatives have ever been identified.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/27/world/europe/iran-disside...
0: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/08/iran-behind-tw...
Fernando Pereira, murdered by the French DGSE when they bombed the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland in 1985.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dulcie_September#Death
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior
The DGSE ancestor (SDECE) did murder some Algerian independence militants and associates in Europe during the late 50s early 60s tho. Some of them being European, like some German arms dealers (https://www.theafricareport.com/46441/algeria-the-dark-side-...)
>but we’d really see a true shift in power when the mafia does it in broad daylight similar to the Khashoggi situation.
Why is this interesting? I personally find the assassinations of Fred Hampton and Huey Newton far more interesting.
Also, the alleged David Kelly and Jeffrey Epstein are curious since they were officially rules as suicide but many people don't believe that line.
I suppose geopolitically it’s a form of shit-testing. They are probing the limits. Any escalation to this inevitably will lead to war (if someone misjudges and goes after a US diplomat, or official).
And I wonder if the west is close to a misstep. Right now the US is killing Iranian generals and scientists with impunity. All these things have limits.
But i would be quite surprised if the hit on Huey was a government hit. His existence prevented another movement like the black panther to take place.
> His existence prevented another movement like the black panther to take place.
I hadn't heard this, but I'm really not educated on the topic so that's not surprising.