You do not need to spend $500 if all you need is headphones that do their job.
Its amazing to me the number of Apple fanboys in this thread that seem to think that every other pair of headphones out there is completely broken, and nothing will "just work". This has been a solved problem for like a decade.
Call folks fanboys (I use windows / linux all day for my job by choice).
Do your "solved problem" bluetooth headphones allow EASY audio sharing when the kid is sleeping and you want to watch something with your wife? These are two bluetooth devices on same audio stream.
Does your solved problem bluetooth headphones RELIABLY connect to your current device (without having to unpaid with another device). That is game changing.
The problem is, folks have listened to folks like you so many times and gotten BURNED so many times. Oh, it "should" work you say. Total BS at least 20% of the time.
I won't buy the max'es because I have no need for something that nice. But the $159 for the airpods? Slam dunk.
You should go back and listen to the criticism of the airpods when they came out - overpriced, stupid, whatever. Then check out sales numbers.
Do that again with the apple watch maybe? Started slow, but I'm curious what their top competitor is by $ revenue - they have just improved and improved.
Do that again with the ipod?
Do that again with ballmer and the iphone?
Do that again with the actually pretty cheap M1?
I'm a software engineer, and I'm happy to get my hands dirty with some code. But when it comes to my devices, I really don't want to waste my time trying to figure out why this or that device, doesn't pair with, or work well with, my other device.
Apple just does this better than anyone else.
I recently got an Apple watch and the setup process was sublime. Pairing with all my other devices, was effortless. Instantly my watch was "mine" with everything I need on it.
The LTE setup was mostly painless too. There was a bug in the process that was on Verizon's end, but other than that, getting my phone paired to my number was a breeze.
The pairing with my phone, and my mac, is what makes this whole ecosystem special. It just works, and it works pretty damn well. Yes, you can get most of this functionality on a windows or linux machine, with an android phone, airpod replicas, and an android based smart watch but the fluidity of the apple integration is unmatched.
This is what (some) people are willing to pay more for.
From what I've experienced it is true that when using apple with apple, it just works. that is true and i won't dispute that. they own the ecosystem so they can handle the integration well, obiously. But the opposite is also true. When using apple with non apple, it (sometimes) just doesn't work or works poorly. When i use the same device on Windows or Android (linux is a different beast), it just works when it won't with iOS or Mac. and sometimes i just want to use a brand thats not apple...
I think for many apple users these days, they believe that Android/Windows still have the problems they faced back in 2009 and havent extensively used either since switching.
Android pairs newer bluetooth devices essentially the same way apple pairs airpods now and windows doesnt still have all the issues from windows vista that made them switch in the first place and has support for way more devices than apple ever will.
I'm not trying to make the point that one is better than the other, my point for apple users is that the experience on windows/android isn't as bad as they think it is and my point for windows/android users is that you're not missing out on much or anything at all from the apple ecosystem.
Buy devices that fit your use case and budget. its as simple as that.
Yes, things are better. If I compared the first iPhone to an Pixel 4, the iPhone isn't going to compare nicely. It's always worth making sure you are comparing apples to apples (no pun intended ;-))
Result: couldn't get the Bluetooth conference widget working. Googled around for hours and tried all kinds of things, including compiling and installing kernel modules and replacing the bluetooth stack. Nothing worked. No, this is not an exotic non-standard protocol, it's a standard one (I think aptX or so? sorry, forgot the details again already; but I googled around and found lots of people with similar issues, and then many "solutions", none of which worked; see above)
Anyway, I am back to plugging in my MacBook each time we want to video conference, and will soon install Windows on the media server (no matter how much I hate the thought).
I really want to use Linux for this kind of stuff, but it's 2020 and I can't get a Bluetooth widget working that works flawlessly on various Macs, Windows machines, iPhone, iPad and an Android phone.
So while things may be better, they are still far from where they could be, I am afraid.
But yeah, much much simpler solution to just install Windows on it.
Your media server is doing a lot more than serving up music/movies/tv isn’t it? If not, it’s hard to go past Plex or Kodi.
Is video calling a thing that people call on a media server for?
I’d be airplaying to the tv, but that’s going the Apple route.
Yeah, adding the microphone and camera is going beyond that, but it's convenient to use the computer already hooked to the TV instead of, you know, hooking up yet another one. Also, how does Airplay give me access to the camera mounted on top of the TV (an old phone, BTW)? Also, how is that relevant for my comment at all? :-)
www.macrumors.com/how-to/mirror-facetime-call-apple-tv-airplay-2-smart-tv/amp/
> Also, how is that relevant
It isn’t particularly, I’d just never heard of a media server doing video chat and was wondering about it.
I use Linux for work.
In Ubuntu 20 air pod pros still don’t pair properly - I can use the earphones but not the headset microphone.
Then there are minor annoyances like plugging in an external monitor and keyboard to a closed laptop (thinkpad) and not having it wake up (need to open and close the case), or closing the case but then the power management doesn’t work properly so if it’s not plugged in to power, then when I open it the next day the battery is drained and the laptop has shutdown - losing any unsaved state.
Finally (and this is the main one preventing me from using Linux on my personal laptop) Chinese fonts on Linux are awful. Not only are the default fonts ugly but applications do a poor job of rendering them, often getting baselines offsets between subsequent characters wrong, making characters on the same line jump around.
It’s altogether a subpar experience especially compared to macOS.
Do you really blame Linux over Apple for that? Bluetooth on Linux isn't great, that's totally true, but a big source of problems is the device makers. They often test against only the system they are targeting, and leave the rest. Nearly every bluetooth implementation has issues, but the Linux one is never tested/developed with like others.
> Then there are minor annoyances like plugging in an external monitor and keyboard to a closed laptop (thinkpad) and not having it wake up (need to open and close the case), or closing the case but then the power management doesn’t work properly so if it’s not plugged in to power, then when I open it the next day the battery is drained and the laptop has shutdown - losing any unsaved state.
I agree, this is insanely stupid. By all means I don't think things are perfect yet, but they are definitely better than they used to be. There are also easy things you can do to avoid these things, such as sleeping your laptop from the Gnome widget (or just run `systemctl suspend -i`) and it works every time. just open the lid to resume working. It's annoying that you have to do that for sure, but in my opinion learning simple workflow changes like that aren't a big deal in exchange for the FLOSS aspects, but everyone is different. Choice is what makes things great!
I don't blame anyone, and I understand the reasons, but at the end of the day I still can't use devices I can use everywhere else, and I'm reminded of that daily when I need to plug wired headphones in instead.
Power-management issues I've learned to work around - but again is something that requires regular actions/changes in behaviour that serve as a continual reminder that there are issues.
Chinese font issues I've given up on entirely and I just have the UI in English.
Don't get me wrong, macOS has plenty of issues too, and it feels like the overall software quality has been in a gradual state of decline for at least a decade, but it doesn't have the same continual reminders of issues that I get when using Linux, and the fonts always look nice regardless of language.
When I was last using this machine regularly, most biannual upgrades broke one of these three things anyway (and, no: the tweaks were not obscure things that caused the breakage, and several failed attempts were made to revert them, report them, or look into the causes, and they obviously don't affect the live USB).
On desktop OS or smartphone I cannot agree with this sentiment though. I used Arch Linux (arguably the best Linux experience I've had by far) on Thinkpad for 3 years and used Nexus/Pixel for 5+ years. Starting from last year I finally had enough and switched back to Macbook + iPhone. God were the devices much, much reliable and my life much easier. At least I didn't have to worry about random stuffs like Bluetooth disconnection, lack of proper HiDPI support or the camera taking 5 seconds to start/simply freezing.
With Linux, you know that something can work if you just give it enough elbow grease. The same is true on macOS, but the ecosystem does not tempt you unless its something you actually need. On Linux, the ecosystem says, "oh, that weird thing you want to do you? YES! You can do it! It's normal! Go for it!" And then you do, and you have issues, and everyone is like "oh that sucks but also you were trying to do a weird thing." The blessed path is less clear.
Seriously- who is more likely to put app ads in my start menu (candy crush and friends) when I pay for the ‘pro’ version of their os? Apple or windows?
Can you guarantee my Samsung TV won’t start showing me ads? Hint - they already do.
My next Samsung smart phone from Verizon won’t have trash bloat ware on it and won’t prompt me endlessly for Samsung pay?
That I can get an item fixed easily at any of their retail stores?
Sure - stuff out there works - but figuring out the perfect phone carrier / phone provider for example is annoying. Where is download boost on Verizon? Oh, it’s disabled.
Even apples phone experience is much more consistent across all carriers. Why these other folks bundle 10 Verizon and another batch of junk themselves as user value enhancing boggles my mind
Shame on you, Apple.
This isn’t really the part of Apple’s Bluetooth that I appreciate. What I find immensely useful is when you want to switch the headphones from one device to another. Apple’s solution isn’t 100% accurate, but on any given day, it’s common for me to switch my AirPod Pros from my phone to my watch to my laptop to my Apple TV. Before I switched over to all Apple gear, I needed to either spend 5 minutes re-pairing my headphones or (what I really did) have dedicated Bluetooth headphones for my TV.
This is the major benefit for me... the seamless switching, not the pairing.
I guess "it just works" as long as you keep upgrading to their latest. That's true with deprecations in every product line, but it's not something I'd pay a premium for, especially when it doesn't exist.
I tried the Apple smart home ecology on the argument of privacy and I’m getting frustrated at the disparity in quality vs Google. For example, there’s a noticeable probability of multiple devices picking up AND redundantly entering a command, like adding a reminder. Often, often times, another Siri device will take over from the local one in front of me and say, “Sorry, I can’t do that,” even though it could if the right device picked up.
Apple is still a top recommendation but they aren’t a no brainer. The more you use your brain the less you end up on the bad side of the Apple ecology, like with the sticky keyboard issue.
https://support.roku.com/article/360057488733
Apple TV is also available as a Roku channel:
https://channelstore.roku.com/details/a20e3c294993147c6cda43...
Roku does not yet have HBO Max, but the two services are currently negotiating a deal to make it happen:
https://www.cnet.com/news/hbo-max-exec-on-roku-deal-we-will-...
In the meantime, HBO Max can be streamed to Roku from an Apple device via AirPlay 2:
https://variety.com/2020/digital/news/roku-apple-airplay-4k-...
I will say though that oddly, the Siri remote got a little worse in its ATV4K revision — most notably, triggering a jump back/forward 30s is much harder on the newer remote. As a result I've paired my old original Dev Kit remote with the ATV4K, which works beautifully.
* Until they start rattling (https://techcrunch.com/2020/10/30/airpods-pro-rattling-crack...)
* An automatic update you can't roll back makes noise cancellation worse (https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/21069953/apple-airpods-pr...)
* They don't pair, or only one of them pairs, or they don't pair with each other (I personally have these three cases all the time)
Apples marketing department just works.
Which one is the high-end, comparable non-Apple model that I can slap a pair of AA batteries in?
Go ahead. I'll wait.
So why are you even posting in a topic about a pair of wireless headphones? You're not the market. You have no recent experience with similar products. What was your point?
I also recall some issues when developing Arduino stuff because of the USB connection to the Arduino.
If you want the best platform for connecting random vendors together, I would probably go with Windows/Microsoft.
If you want the best platform for seamless vertical integration nothing is better than Apple. That's why people get so excited about new Apple products. It's a new shiny toy that they know will work excellently within their ecosystem.
I’ve have $10 Bluetooth earphones from CVS and Walgreens and have never had an issue using them with my iPhone or iMac.
As long as the no-name stuff follows the specs, it just works in the Apple ecosystem.
Not to discount your experiences, but I use FreeBSD, Windows, MacOS, iOS, and Android devices, professionally and personally, and I don't have many problems getting these devices to talk to each other.
>Had all kinds of problems connecting it to my Android phone.
MacOS doesn't have native MTP support. You can use a third party tool on MacOS or an SMB client on Android.
- Do an in warranty battery replacement (within 1 year)
- Pay a repair shop or apple for a new battery.
- Apple runs one of the most comprehensive recycling and trade-in programs out there. Every store offers both trade-in value for devices that have it and free recycling for those that don't.
https://www.apple.com/recycling/nationalservices/
- They will send you a fedex label if you want to fedex in your airpods for recycling if you are too lazy to actually go to a store.
People helping the environment are out there doing it, and others sit on HN too lazy to take even the minimal steps to reduce their impact.
And no, other companies you buy your totally wireless bluetooth headphones from do not make all this easier, but MUCH MUCH harder.
My AirPods also lack battery capacity now, to a degree that it’s annoyingly short. I accidentally came over a second pair, but yeah a new pair of earphones every two to three years sounds expensive to me.
Problem is, they work so spectacularly well otherwise that I don’t know how that I could stand anything else. Part of this is that Apple seem to intentionally make other headsets work less well. For example by not routing calls through the headset by default, such a joke.
Of all the things that could be disposable this seems like the least concerning. A Tesla contains orders of magnitudes more plastic, electronics, and batteries that will one day be junk and you will go through maybe 3 sets of AirPods before you trade in for a newer model EV?
I'm all-in on Apple, and I don't see that changing. And generally, the above has been my experience too. But I recently bought a wireless magic keyboard and trackpad for a standing workstation with a monitor in the corner of our living room. I'd expected to be able to switch between our two laptops seamlessly so that whoever happened to need it could use it, but no - you have to explicitly unpair the keyboard and trackpad from one computer before re-pairing it to the other. That means finding it wherever my wife left it, turning it on or at a minimum logging in and all the rest of the dance, every single time. It drives me insane.
I have a shitty $50 brand x bluetooth speaker that does it better than this. I want to listen to some music, I pair with it. My wife wants to listen to some music later? She just pairs to it and she's done. It doesn't seem that hard to get right.
My recollection is that the magic keyboard / trackpad insta-pair if you connect them via wire. Would plugging them each in to a lightning cable for a second to switch their allegiance work better for you than manually unpairing? Obviously it's still a hassle.
I didn't know that, thanks - I'll try that. It's still a pain, but less so than having to track my wife's computer down.
It does beg the question of why I'm going wireless at all, of course.
There’s 3 dedicated buttons for paired Bluetooth devices (fn + 1,2,3) and hitting them just pairs to the device. And you can reassign a button to another device by holding fn+1,2,3.
When you turn it on it pairs to the last device it was paired to.
Everything on my Apple Watch just works, but I can do much more things with my 8 year old android smartwatch.
I actually never managed to do it, and had to call for backup. In order to eventually do it, this other person had to install multiple updates, each of which seemed to only be accessible from some different piece of UI, and a lot of the process seemed to trial and error and dead-ends.
I don't think Apple stuff "just works" nearly as well as people claim it does.
Once the OS releases became free and were no longer distributed on physical media there was a time when releases would be downloaded from the App Store. OS updates have moved from a dedicated Software Update app, to the App Store app and now into System Preferences. For I'm not sure how long, OS installations have been effectively click and approve the license with no other input required for the past decade (and with increasingly less information displayed during the install process).
I've recently installed OS X 10.4 Tiger (from 2005) and Windows 8 Pro, both from original media to blank drives, the OS X installation was much less frustrating (most notably because I didn't have to dig up a license key).
"For I'm not sure how long, OS installations have been effectively click and..." agree to legal contract titled 'Terms and Conditions' that, if anyone read them, would clarify a TON of technical misconceptions and speculations (but ironically does not provide much legal clarity).
I've recently installed OS X 10.10 - macOS 11.0 dozens of times each with no eyes or hands, and at least one of the people involved was frustrated every single time. People shouldn't have to have experience installing every release of the last fifteen years to install the latest without struggling.
Because Microsoft has had to pay so much attention to it - and maybe Apple has not - the Windows update process is at the very least far more informative about what’s going on - status of installation before and after any reboot. Updating OS on wife’s MacBook seems like comparatively opaque process. Which is fine if things “always work”, but they don’t.
I've been fortunate to never run into any failed updates (and I've done many) but as they remove features like this and 32 bit support, I'm looking at other options for my next machine.
That said, I think your description of other bluetooth devices is overly pessimistic. I've had no problems finding bluetooth devices that do basic bluetooth things (connecting, xmitting audio, swapping devices) well. For that reason I basically never recommend Apple products as if they are the only ones to "get it right."
Apple is a premium brand. Folks should consider them if they want a premium product, but it's silly to act as if their competition doesn't offer the same basic functionality for much better prices.
That's partly because apple ignore HN. I need a modulare phone that I can ugprade the ram on. Apple is ignoring you, they seal their phones up with epoxy so they are pretty darn waterproof. But for normal users, this is a positive.
They call out fake third party batteries. OH NO says HN. For normal users, a plus again.
They offer BY FAR the longest and most reliable operating system support. First gen ipad pro's STILL have value! My old android tablet has been unsupported since the DAY I bought it.
Or built in junkware and adware. If I buy a samsung TV can I be pretty sure it won't datamine my viewing habits? Even top competitors turn out to be basically scammers. Will you guarantee me that samsung won't jam ads onto my TV after I buy it?
"Towards the end of 2019, owners have started to voice their dissatisfaction with larger, increasingly obtrusive, and unrelated ads showing up on their Samsung TVs. These include ads for canned beans or discount supermarkets" - this is on $2,500+ frame art TV's etc.
It turns out, despite your claims, these other very large companies selling very expensive items are scamming folks to often, it only takes getting burned ONCE by this to just reduce your circle of trust dramatically.
Is there a perfect bluetooth device out there? Sure. If I go through the amazon listings will I find that device? I doubt it. If I buy from apple will I get it? I think so.
The price of these headphones is ridiculous, I don't defend that. If they are able to sell them at this price I'll be a bit surprised. But overall, they have built user trust up pretty high.
> They call out fake third party batteries. OH NO says HN. For normal users, a plus again.
They make it impossible to replace any component even if the user knows exactly what they're doing. Not, "warning: non-certified component added", but "haha, you thought you could use 3rd party parts? enjoy your brick"
> They offer BY FAR the longest and most reliable operating system support. First gen ipad pro's STILL have value! My old android tablet has been unsupported since the DAY I bought it.
Right, which is why we keep hearing from people who move their macbooks to Linux after Apple drops support. And why Apple technically supports phones forever while releasing OS updates that tank performance.
> Or built in junkware and adware. If I buy a samsung TV can I be pretty sure it won't datamine my viewing habits? Even top competitors turn out to be basically scammers. Will you guarantee me that samsung won't jam ads onto my TV after I buy it?
I don't own any such device to test, but I notice that https://www.imore.com/how-change-privacy-settings-apple-tv talks about a "Limit Ad Tracking" option on Apple TV.
When I have done my own battery replacements on android phones I have found that half the time the battery I got off ebay is already stuffed probably because it was in someones phone for 2 years already.
We need to consider how much use letting users replace their own screens is compared to how much use having users not get their phone stolen is. Perhaps there could be a system where the part ids are tied to an apple id and the original id has to authorize a transfer but then all the displays on ebay would still not work because they are stolen.
I have completely had it with Samsung consumer level devices. Every single one I have had has come with bloatware, discontinued support after a short time and seems to slow down real bad after a few years.
The last samsung product I own is a TV which was perfectly fine on day one but now its so slow I find it hard to change channel or volume and turning it on shows a shitload of HUD bloatware about random streaming services.
And when you point out any of these issues people go "Oh its not a problem you just open the registery editor" or "you pop the back of your tv open and unplug the antenna and then flash this file on to the spi chip"
And don't care if all their other products have to be from Apple. You don't buy "one" Apple product which "just works". You have to buy everything from the ecosystem.
Lately I was checking for some good wireless earplugs. The airpods seem to be the best. But only if you're using an iPhone.
>You have to buy everything from the ecosystem.
Agreed with the first, heavily disagreed with the second. People often end up buying into the Apple ecosystem after just one product, but not because they have to, but because they feel compelled to.
That was me with original airpods. They worked superbly with android, no complaints whatsoever. So I was like "huh, let me check out their other newer product offerings, it's been quite a while". Eventually, i ended up buying heavily into the ecosystem, and couldn't be happier (sidenote: shared clipboard between your phone and laptop/desktop is amazing).
In fact, I think the timing and everything about original airpods was a stroke of genius. I single-handedly know quite a few people who couldn't care less about Apple ecosystem at all and owned zero Apple devices, but they eventually gave in to try airpods, bought them, and a few years down the road ended up buying an iPhone or a Mac. Some of them were even very staunch pro-android people.
KDE Connect: free, open source and, despite the name, works even if you're not using KDE.
The phone I used them with first was the Pixel 2. They worked perfectly fine. The only heartburn I had was once I had paired them with my Macbook, the bluetooth connection would prefer the Macbook over the phone, which was sometimes annoying.
Others might be upset at the lack of support for the Google Assistant, but for actually using the headphones, there was nothing better, even on Android.
The same with Apple. With few exceptions, I can walk into an Apple store and buy an arbitrary product and be assured that it’s, at the minimum, good. Contrast with someone like Samsung who has great products but also really bad products. I can’t pull a random Samsung out of a hat and be convinced that I’ll like it.
Even better, your phone can act as the remote, your airpods can paid (I've heard) etc.
Other than iphone I'm very late to apple's world, but as I get older, I just love that stuff works and I don't feel like I'm getting scammed every second.
Yes. Samsung has supported this for years and it has recently upstreamed to all android devices. You can literally do this with any phone and any bluetooth devices, you don't need to fork up $500 for the priviledge.
> Does your solved problem bluetooth headphones RELIABLY connect to your current device (without having to unpaid with another device).
Yes. The Bose QC35 II for example can store multiple bluetooth connections on the device and switch between them. They cost half as much as the Apple cans and are all but guaranteed to sound better than the plastic cones Apple uses.
> You should go back and listen to the criticism of the airpods when they came out - overpriced, stupid, whatever. Then check out sales numbers.
I won't argue that. Apple certainly moves product - there's a significant portion of the population that would buy anything they put out.
I have these and it’s annoying to switch them because they’re stored and switched via the app - if you’re switching between more than 2 devices.
The Bose anc also don’t have particularly good audio either so I’m interested to see what the Apple offering sounds like.
In general, there’s a bunch of little annoyances with the current anc devices available (audio quality, uncomfortable, ugly, etc) that I’d like to see Apple fix.
Not true, you can cycle between previously connected devices by long holding the power switch in the on position. You can also add new connections and wipe all connections via that switch. I have them and never need to use the app. Read the manual.
You don’t need to press any buttons. Just interact with your devices as normal and your audio connection switches automatically as if sound were playing through the device’s respective speakers.
In fact there may be a downside because sometimes I actually need to take my AirPods out to verify that audio is still playing through them since the audio just transferred so fast.
Also one of my devices is a Windows PC. I don’t know if AirPods work equally well with non-Apple sources.
The battery life is pretty much one day's use. The bluetooth connectivity is flaky, and sometimes I hear weird sound artifacts over Bluetooth too. The robot voice announcement whenever a device goes in or out of range, even if I'm currently listening to something from a different device, is super annoying, and there's no way AFAIK to turn it off.
But I worry that the "just works" will only kick in for a complete apple ecosystem. I have a bunch of issues with my airpods + Android, that iphone users don't seem to have, for example.
Man, I wish my headphones did this. I constantly have to fiddle with my bluetooth settings, have audio come out of my mac or iPhone, sometimes in inappropriate places, even after I've tried to tell the OS to play from headphones. The worst is when switching between my Mac and iPhone, usually I have to unpair one, put my headphones into pairing mode, or at the very least turn bluetooth off on one device.
My headphones are...Apple AirPods. They did this when they first launched, so I even got the pros. Now none of my pairs ever work.
I really wish Apple would figure out how to make stuff just work. I think there's opportunity for someone to figure it out! No clue what happened to this company, but the AirPods are undoubtedly the most frustrating Apple product I've ever owned
I switch my current ones between a macbook and my phone multiple times a day, all it takes is pressing a single button in my taskbar on macbook or control panel of my phone.
I heard they even have an autoswitch feature now, where you can use your airpods with macbook, but when a call comes in or you play a video on your iphone, it switches automatically to that device, and then back. Haven't had a chance to test that feature myself tho, so YMMV.
My Airpods don't. They are regularly confused whether they should connect to the iPad or the iPhone. Yes, both are nearby. But I'm only tapping and interacting on one of them at any given moment. Not always. Sometimes.
More frustrating: The iPad just loves to use its internal loudspeakers. I'm sitting on the couch watching a YouTube video via Airpods. I'm clicking on another video, sound is coming from the loudspeaker. Not always. Sometimes.
Third annoyance: I'm getting both Airpods out the capsule. Both are nearly fully charged. Only one is playing. I need to put the mute one back into the capsule, close it, open it and get the Airpod out again. Not always. Often.
Pre-COVID I used a pair of Plantronics noise cancelling headphones that covered all of your requirements pretty well. Unfortunately the microphone was shit, so I decided to get Airpod Pros for all the remote meetings. Even with the short battery life they have quickly become my default headphones.
I'm not typically a fanboy of anything, but Apple does make some quality electronics.
Cool, just don't be surprised when the sales numbers and reviews end up not reflecting that sentiment. Mostly because I doubt that vast majority of people use that metric as a baseline measure of high quality.
Non replaceable batteries, non upgradeable memory etc is all a tradeoff. Checkout the mac mini with M1 and soldered on memory, but memory performance seems amazing.
I draw the line with replacable battery because it renders the device inherently useless for its purpose (mobile use case).
All Apple in ear Airpods get destroyed if anyone replaces the battery. Even Apple cannot, and they claim to care about the environment.
Beats got a bad name, so I just skip that. There's a reason they did not attach that brand name to their Airpods products.
We just had BF and I saw great deals for Airpods. All of them.
XM3, which has superb ANC, just had a successor (XM4) which has multiple device support. XM4 goes for 350. XM3 was 200 on BF.
Now compare that with Airpods Max price tag and features.
I bought XM4 as a successor to my Logitech G933. Logitech G933 has no ANC, not so good sound quality, it has a proprietary dongle (the dealbreaker for my use case due to USB-A and dongle requirement), it has microUSB, it has 3.5 mm, battery lasts 8 hours. Battery replacement can be bought directly from Logitech, easy to replace yourself, and costs 10 EUR. Compare to XM3/4 3.5 mm, Bluetooth, superb ANC, USB-C (in contrast to microUSB or lightning), and the battery is good... but I doubt it still is in 3 years.
As an owner of those same Sony headphones (XM3), their multi-device support is a joke compared to airpods. Not even kidding, night and day. Manual pairing, limit on devices, having to do everything through Sony's buggy app, etc. I still like them, because when I am working at my desk in an office, I would prefer over-the-ears. If Apple manages to match and/or beat Sony's sound+ANC quality, but bring all the connectivity and great multi-device pairing features of current Airpods to Airpods Max, I am sold.
I use the WF-1000XM3 and WH-1000XM4 and the pairing of the WF-1000XM3 works fine for me, but the ANC of the over the ears XM4 (as well as your WH-1000XM3) is superior. At times, I don't even have listen to anything and it still works. Its terrific at work. Even works with getting less agitated by the noise of my children.
If you confirm that ANC is actually significantly better than on XM3 (which I already liked a lot anyway), then now I know what I will be upgrading to, in case Airpods Max end up not delivering on their promise :)
And on that note, for other people who are interested, XM4 had recently a really good deal on Amazon (US) for something like $250. At that price point, it is def a really good bang for the buck.
At least until Airpods Max come out, XM4 are unilaterally imo overall the best pair of wireless headphones with ANC. Not trying to imply that Airpods Max will take over that spot as soon as they get released, they might completely flop and be trash, who knows. But either way, XM4 is currently imo the best, and even if Airpods Max somehow manages to become a magical pair of headphones, XM4 is still a great pair, and is definitely still gonna be a better bang for the buck than Airpods Max (while i pre-ordered those, I don't have any illusions about me not paying the "apple tax" on those). So for anyone hesitating or not into the idea of paying $500+ for wireless headphones with ANC, i heavily recommend Sony WH-1000XM4.
I don’t know, I have never once needed this capability.
> Does your solved problem bluetooth headphones RELIABLY connect to your current device (without having to unpaid with another device). That is game changing.
Yes, for the 5 years I’ve had Bluetooth headphones this has never been an issue.
No opinion on apple being better or not (mixed bag, in my limited experience) but this just isn't true in general I think. I've used at least a half dozen bluetooth headphones on at least a dozen different laptops/desktops/phones over the last decade... they have all had some issues with connections at various times.
https://www.jabra.com/accessories/jabra-link-360#/
It looks to the PC like USB audio, but it talks to the headphones over Bluetooth.
If I want to transition from the Windows 10 laptop to the Linux laptop, or desk-side PC, I just move the dongle.
Signal is solid. Has an LED on it so you can see whether it's talking to a headset (blue), playing audio with mic umuted (green), or playing audio with mic muted (red). (Amazing feature for Zoom calls!)
The retail price of it seems a bit high at $56, but you can find them used with Jabra Evolve 65 headsets on eBay for $45-$60 as a bundle. (The headset sound is pretty good, actually. Fragile if you don't pack it flat in a backpack, alas.)
Sorry I sound like a commercial, but it really makes life easier. Seems like the frustration saved was worth the $$$.
Is that really game changing? I recently got myself a pair of Huawei FreeLace Pro which do exactly that, even have a button shortcut to change between the two devices, works with my iPhone and iPad. They have ANC, an Awareness mode, a battery charge that last 28 hours, the audio sounds amazing enough to this non-audiophile, all of that for 89€.
Neither pair will switch between my iPhone and MacBook without triggering a manual pair from the Bluetooth menu. To get that working for the AirPods I have to update to Big Sur but apparently that has a good chance of bricking my MacBook so I can't.
(Yes, I save, and use, my old smartphones. I'm an Android developer so they're handy to keep around.)
I used to be like that and my hearing shows it, and I've learned that just because I'm listening to something, it doesn't need to immerse my entire aural apparatus.
>Do your "solved problem" bluetooth headphones allow EASY audio sharing when the kid is sleeping and you want to watch something with your wife? These are two bluetooth devices on same audio stream.
So in your mind, 'solving' a problem is buying not one, but TWO $500 headphones instead of $10 earbuds and a $5 Y connector? Oh wait, you also believe that the headphone jack is stupid. Yeah, sure, sell people a $1000 solution for a problem you created. Great job!
>It's amazing to me how many folks seem to have no clue about what folks value in the apple ecosystem.
I'm not a fan of Gucci products either. ;)
I'm confused here. There's no Appke secret sauce chip in the TV so connecting my headphones (Airpods Pro) to it is the same hassle it is connecting any bluetooth device, but they work together just fine. The Apple secret sauce for switching between devices is like an escalator breaking and becoming stairs: when you use the to connect to any other bluetooth device they work as well as any dumber bluetooth headphone/speaker.
Wait what? How does it lock you into anything? Sure, you might not get some Apple-ecosystem-specific perks if you are using their Airpods with non-apple devices (like the automatic switching described in the parent comment), but you still get the same benefits you would expect from other non-airpods wireless headphones. You can use airpods with android phones or your tv or whatever other device supporting bluetooth headsets, just like you would with non-airpods wireless headphones. You can also plug Airpods Max into anything using a 3.5mm jack cable, just like you could with literally any other wired headphones (and many wireless over the ear ones).
I cannot think of a single feature [that is also present on non-apple wireless headphones] that Apple locks you out of if you are using airpods with a non-apple device (e.g., the automatic switching between devices based on the content played doesn't count here, because I cannot think of a single non-apple wireless headset that supports it; you get the idea).
Decades-old Bose QC 15 headphones still work because the battery is replaceable. Pop in some new ear cushions every few years from Amazon and they are like new.
Don't expect these $550 headphones to be working 10 years after purchase.
A hardware subscription of sorts.
As they did with the AirPods ~$150 bi-annual "subscription". And the AirPods Pro $200ish bi-annual "subscription".
The connectivity has been one of the worst experiences i've had lol. Both in and out of Apple ecosystem.
I think it's primarily my laptop to be honest (2018 Macbook Pro), because they do better when connected to my phone; but the ~4 other bluetooth devices including one in-ear bluetooth pair i have never have connectivity issues. Yet i can't count the number of times these AirPods have disconnected, or connected one ear but not the other, etc.
I still love my AirPods, but connectivity has been the worst out of all my bluetooth devices. It's been frustrating.
Not sure why, I have AirPods and then AirPods Pro with a late-2017 Macbook Pro and never had a problem. Ditto with 2 iPhone models...
Maybe that has been true in the past. Today, that's just delusion.
Can I be listening to music on my MBP and answer a call with them on my iPhone seamlessly?
FWIW, I love my Airpods Pro and it's insane that neither Sennheiser nor Bose could beat Apple to the punch with something that works as well as those do. That being said, my Airpods Pro aren't without issues: they seem to hate my iMac. Not even the Big Sur update could change my Airpods' aversion towards reliably connecting to it.
QC35 II.
They all happily switch from phone to laptop to other device, going in and out of range, etc
They required me to manually disconnect from one device in order to connect to another (e.g. from laptop to phone or tablet). As far as first world problems go, it was a huge pain in the arse. And nobody cared to mention it in their reviews (found out later in forums it was just not supported).
I ended up preferring the AirPods Pro (and the slightly worse nc, but much lighter and automatically connecting) over them, and now I hardly ever use them. So those were $400 down the drain.
If those AirPods Max work like I want (which, judging from the AirPods Pro, they will), that would be a solid $500 spent without the remorse and dissapointment, which is much better than my Sony purchase...
The new version (WH1000MX4, terrible naming scheme) supposedly have multi device support but I haven't experienced it yet so not sure if it's as smooth as the AirPods.
The number of times I’ve had to pull my laptop out of the overhead compartment on a flight to turn off Bluetooth so I could pair them with my iPad meant I eventually gave up using them. As you say, definitely a first world problem, but I guess that just means I’m in the target demographic.
While I like the ergonomics, I'm wondering how much of the lack of it in non-apple headphones products is the result of Apple not fully supporting them and thus, monopolistic practices.
Replacing the cable with (modified?) bluetooth technology allows distinguishing "our hardware" from "their hardware" and adjusting software to only support certain features.
So, why would not apple devices only support these features on Apple headphones?
I'm not the parent but I typically use a cheap set of earbuds for exercise/active commuting and my over ear headphones while in the office or at home due to better comfort/noise cancellation/audio quality.
In other words, the real "productivity" hack is to not support a dilute workflow. One will save a _lot_ more time that way compared to some device interoperability.
That's an interesting connection you've drawn between switching audio sources and malingering work.
On the flip side, a mere anecdote of where this kind of flipping was actually beneficial, if you will?
It came in the form of being on a zoom call on the Macbook (which I have in a dock and connected to a pair of displays) with a single airpod in, hearing the kid having a kid moment, and being able to just reach over, open up my ipad, join the call and immediately have audio switched so I could walk down stairs to help buckaroo with a chore, walk back upstairs, put the ipad away and switch back to the Macbook was kind of...well awesome.
No one on the call had a clue.
(also comes in handy when I want to switch from work macbook to personal macbook after hours, or vice versa, if I'm on personal macbook after hours and get paged and need to jump on a slack call. Definitely not avoiding onerous or difficult work there either)
Someone people truly can't handle gadget chit-chat.
Tell that to Bose. Their newest 700 model headphones are a UX/Connectivity nightmare.
If not for the fact that the Sony noise cancelling headphones exist in the same price bracket, I could easily see myself going with a $500 pair of headphones that "just work".
They're junk
If their fidelity is below its peers, all of the "just works" stuff goes to trash for me. I have a pair of entry level Philips BT headphones (designed by Gibson) and they sound well above its price point. It's no Sennheiser, Grado, RHA or similar but, they're not a pair of cheap cans either.
So, for $549, they should rather sound detailed and balanced. Otherwise, It's meaningless for me.
You're tempted to suspect that the problems experienced by your one colleague are self inflicted, but you'd never suggest it out loud. The differences might be real, but due to a hidden cause. Or, some workers might be more "accident prone" when it comes to dealing with tech. I've even seen this with people who should be the most tech savvy: Good programmers.
Regardless of the cause, imagine that someone discovers a market appeal to the effect of: "The problems are not your fault, we have stuff that just works." It's a safe bet that the message will resonate with X percent of people. That's a perfect market. And if Apple has discovered that market, we certainly can't dispute that they're successful -- possibly the most successful company on the planet.
On the other hand, if you belong to the other group, and somebody can make a less expensive product that you're satisfied with, and it "just works" for you, then you're happy too. They can be successful too, even if on a modest scale. I'd take 10% of Apple's market. ;-)
At one workplace, long ago, two of us were using Windows, and my colleague couldn't make it work at all, plus he sent me articles about Windows horror stories from magazines. I never had a problem. My friend ended up with Apple, and I kept using Windows. We were both happy.
Yeah right. I spend hundreds of dollars in headphones when I want to upgrade and it's always the same crappy bluetooth experience. Not saying this will be better but that problem hasn't been solved yet.
Meanwhile my Sony WH1000-XM3s work perfectly with my TV, including volume control, and work perfectly with everything else including my Apple devices.
I don't have "connectivity issues" and battery life is 10hrs more than AirPods Max. They even included a stereo cable in the box to connect to the standard 3.5mm jack built-in to the headset, and they also came with a proper case to protect them when they're in my rucksack. All for £330 less than AirPods Max.
It's amazing that people think AirPods Max will be the first ever good set of on-ear wireless headphones.
Since they are modular, they also have been a breeze to upgrade and repair. Need different cables? Better microphone? Its 20$ to upgrade that part of the headphone. Want to add bluetooth support? Can do that as well.
People buying and gifting pair of > 200$ headphones every year as if speakers are some kind of tech that gets outdated.
If you really care about audio quality and the environment, just buy a good pair of upgradeable headphones. They'll last you your whole life.
Not to my experience...
I am an audio weirdo who used a lot of professional headphones over the years, and I like the Sennheiser sound. Too often have I been disappointed by "premium brands" that are not really in the business of designing headphone drivers and so their sound is subpar.
These Sennheiser headphones switch sources automatically, they are made from metal and leather, they sound great, they have all the battery I need and, most importantly for me, they have actual buttons. After using other headphones without buttons, I can't tell you how much better I like that "feature".
I think Apple can make headway with noise cancellation, battery and ergonomics. That will be enough for most people.
However, for myself, I am most curious if they will actually sound good, especially given that their marketing quip on that topic is - well let's call it "more than a few empty phrases".
Let's see!
The point is that "their job" differs for some people and OP was pretty explicit on what "their job" meant to them.
I have Macs and PCs and the only device that I can use wirelessly without any issues are my Airpods. With the PC, it's just a click to connect. I have tried Jabra headsets, Sony, Bose, and others and none of them even come close so I have to politely disagree with that statement. If these Airpods Max are anything like my regular Airpods, that will be worth it just to add watching TV to that list.
I actually have AirPods too, and I consider the Jabras to be more seamless.
I've never noticed a difference in the sound quality, and I have actually had coworkers remark that they can hear me better when I use the Jabras, FWIW.
I dunno, it seems like you're the one ignoring what people are saying. Multiple people in this thread are specifically pointing out that Jabra can easily do this automated switching too, with no issues. I don't know why you keep ignoring that.
>The situation you're describing where you use the Jabra headsets/phones with an iPad, tablet, and other Macbooks requires you to connect to the devices manually.
No, that's not what I said. The Jabras automatically switch between all of my devices (with the sole exception of the iPad for an unknown reason). It does not require any manual acts on my part.
>If you have to manually switch anything then you either don't have them set up correctly or you intentionally turned something off.
Yes, I intentionally turned off the Automatic switching feature of the Airpods because if I left it on, the Airpods would decide to randomly switch devices even when I was in the middle of a phone call, in the middle of a song, or randomly switch to a device that was sitting in another room completely unused. The Automatic switching feature on the Airpods is completely unusable to me, and after talking to other Airpods users, they found the same. The Jabras, on the other hand, don't have any such issues, and thus the Jabras are much more seamless.
The ability to just take them off and have them pause is icing on the cake as well.
If other headphones have these features, I'm open to them.
If you're using a macbook you need to ensure you're using the AAC codec, for some reason macOS makes SBC as the default codec for lots of devices and you've to force it to use the non-garbage codec.
I’ve never had a firmware upgrade fail on my set of Jabra Elite 75t’s yet, and I think I’ve done three, maybe four since I got them.
I’ve never had to use or been tempted to use an app for them on the PC, only using the one on my iPhone. They work great, sound quality seems fine but not fantastic - maybe AirPods are better, but I wouldn’t know. One nice thing is the EQ in the Jabra app - it’s not “adaptive” like AirPods, but I consider manual EQ a better feature if it’s an either/or decision. Have presets for music and meetings that I rarely mess with unless on long meeting or longer music listening session. I can see how the adaptive would save you from even thinking about it so I can see why some people would prefer it.
The one thing I find annoying about the Jabra set is that if I take the left ear out to talk to someone, I may have to put both back in case and out again to get them both back online. I hear about similar problems with AirPods though.
Again check the codec mac is using for this. I've had no issues with them, you either had a defective device or Mac is forcing the SBC codec. On windows there's a headset audio device for every bluetooth device that sounds garbage too (regardless of what the device actually is).
If the tech exists for in-ears though, hopefully it will/does exist in over-ear.
Or maybe you're just being contrarian...
Edit: I'm not being facetious, this is an excellent move for Apple to make as it continues to pursue dominance in the luxury tech-wearables market.
So yeah, not quite rich enough to buy a house in major cities, but hey, you can certainly splurge on this kind of stuff.
The promise of the Airpods Max is to be very high quality headphones, which are in that rough price range. On top of that the complete integration into the Apple universe and some nice functions like the spacial audio, which had been well received with the AirPods Pro. Which are much cheaper, if you are not aiming for the highest audio quality.
Considering the tiny batteries make these disposable items, it's pretty compelling.
Audeze LCD-4z owners laughing at $500 being touted as expensive. Although, they will last a lot longer.