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Comment by petercooper | Hacker News Reader

Quite the rabbit hole and definitely worth the read :-)

This seems a good place to bring up an odd experience of mine. I've had carpal tunnel for decades but no longer get many flare ups. After trying numerous keyboards, the solution turned out to be using Apple's Magic Keyboard and whatever their huge trackpad is called. The key for me seems to be low key travel, a smallish keyboard (to avoid any stretching), and avoiding mice (the only flare ups I get anymore are from prolonged use of the family PC). This seems to run counter to most experiences, though!

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Same thing here. I've tried tons of different keyboards.

For me, the thing that makes the most difference is a low travel switch and a compact layout. Ideally, ANSI.

I've found Apple Magic Keyboard to be good enough.

Regarding mice, I also like their Magic Trackpad or a Logitech Trackman. It's a shame the latter is not as smooth as the 1990s model.

Everything works great under Linux. Except for Logitech having issues with power saving via USB. But that's a given in all their devices. They should get their stuff together. It can be solved with a udev rule, though.

I have two: one for each hand.

I (used to) have to use my laptop a lot (meetings, traveling), so it didn't work for me to have a different keyboard at my desk. Then when I got stuck at home, I dug out my old kinesis but it was just too much effort to press those keys, and the cursor keys were just too far away. I could feel the muscles in my arms complaining.

But the pronation and ulnar deviation was a pain, so I bought another one, so now I can angle them perfectly for each hand. If you want to try it you'll need karibiner [1] so that the cmd keys work across keyboards.

I'm still using the magic mouse because I found click-drag with the trackpad to be shitty. Is there a trick to that?

[1] https://karabiner-elements.pqrs.org

> I'm still using the magic mouse because I found click-drag with the trackpad to be shitty. Is there a trick to that?

Not sure how the magic mouse works, but there's "drag hold" on the trackpad. You "double tap and hold". Tap once, and on the second tap you don't lift your finger off the trackpad, but start moving it around.

Conveniently located outside the trackpad settings, in Settings -> Accessibility -> Pointer control -> Trackpad options -> Enable dragging. https://imgur.com/a/oSrPyDB

You may have to activate tapping (as opposed to pressing the trackpad).

"Without drag lock" actually does lock, but only for a short time. "With" locks until you click again. "Three finger" is new to me, never tried it.

edit: screenshot

Three finger drag on the trackpad was a game changer for me. I was getting RSI before and that eliminated it entirely.

If you're using karabiner, you might want to use goku to configure it: much nicer: https://github.com/yqrashawn/GokuRakuJoudo

For me what fixed it was a left-handed mouse.

before that I overused my right hand - both for the mouse and things like the arrow keys, enter and backspace.

Similar experience here.

The only setups I can use for >1month are the Kinesis Advantage and MX Ergo, or the butterfly keyboard and trackpad.

I've chocked it up to the super low travel keys and not having to put any force on the trackpad.

Besides that I've tried the MS Sculpt keyboards plus all sorts of mechanical and chiclet keyboards. None of them have been comfortable

My solution was a Theragun, trackball mouse and a Truly Ergonomic keyboard.

I keep getting advertised Theraguns and similar things almost non-stop on Instagram. Are they worth the expense? And how/where are you using it to improve carpal tunnel?

I get some wild forearm pain if I work too long on a laptop (coffee shop, on couch with dog), or if I hold my phone too long (Pokémon Go, there are literally dozens of us.) In particular, it really seems to be in my brachioradialis muscles.

I tried out one of those generic massage guns at a friend’s place. I had scoffed at the infinite variations I saw advertised on Instagram, but I tried it on those small muscles and: wow. It helps me a lot. I can really massage out my forearms. There’s no way it's strong enough to work on knots in big muscles like quads, but for those little extensor muscles? Seems to help me.

I’ve also been helped by what are called, broadly, “tennis elbow compression pads”. (Linked to Amazon below—not recommending this particular brand, it’s just what I have.). I wear theses at night if I’m having pain, and it seems to help.

Now, the actual solution to my problem boils down to “use a full keyboard and mouse, and don’t bend your arms like a t-rex”, but, well, Pokémon.

(https://www.amazon.com/Tomight-Elbow-Brace-Tennis-Compressio...)

I think you would get a lot of benefit out of learning more about trigger points not only in your arms but all over your upper body that can help with carpal tunnel.

The Theragun can do my quads well if I hit the trigger zones. I used to be a national ranked mogul skier so these aren't ordinary quads lol.

Yeah they are! With a bit of research you can find cheaper knock offs too. For carpal tunnel I hit the forearm, bicep, chest, neck. The scalenes in the neck seem to offer the most reward. A book on trigger points and a theragun are very good imo.

No do some boulders, best training for your hole body and you don't even feel it (mainly because you don't want to fall down), BUT start slow and easy for the first 3 month, your ligaments need much MUCH longer to grow strong than your muscles.

Silly question but how do you start bouldering with CTS? I tried it (and weight training) but grabing any heavy weight seems very painful

Not a silly question, you just make routes where your body-weight is 80% on your feet (but that's always the goal), warmup your hands before 5min under really warm water. If it still hurts too much stabilize your hands looks like that:

https://frictionlabs.com/blog/taping-fingers-in-rock-climbin...

But ask your doctor how to stabilize your hand optimally.

And again start slow no weight on the hands, it's about moving them, not overload them (at least in the first 3 month..or more)

Oh and Gyroscopes are extremely good for warmup and for breaks at work.

And no painkillers when you do climbing/boulders.

This is the first time i have heard about stabilising the hands. I can't make the connection, what would that do if you have CTS? if the muscle starts swelling it will compress the nerve and the nerve is already compressed due to the bone structure.

Gyroscopes are just straight up torture devices for me, as in, 10 seconds and i am out ;)

1. Supplementing helped me with grip. Specifically D3 and magnesium supplements.

2. Practice hanging from a pull-up bar. Calisthenics routines often include "passive and active hangs" and doing these for long holds is a good grip trainer.

Is Theragun noticeably better than, say a plastic roller?

Yes. It's so much faster and easier to target. I've foam rolled for years and have every gizmo massage tool out there.

I'd say foam rolling, active pressure release, deep tissue massage, dry needling, trigger point release, acupuncture, acupuncture with tens are all very similar. But percussive therapy with a theragun is easier and something you can do on yourself in ten minutes.

That's super interesting, thanks for sharing. Is the magic keyboard and trackpad considered to be ergonomic? I wonder what's the difference then in split keyboards and such.

Tangential: I find using an actual (Mac) laptop, with the trackpad in front of the keyboard, to be very ergonomic. This is on a desk with a screen attached, so I’m not staring down at the laptop screen.

Rather than the hand sweeping all the way over to the right to reach the mouse, it just twists a little towards the trackpad. The palms never really leave their rests.

I don’t use it like this a lot, but when I do I enjoy it.

In an interesting demonstration of how all ergonomics is personal, my use of a Mac laptop and the repeated wrist rotation from the trackpad to they keyboard and back led to RSI.

That said, I love the Mac trackpad and it has great ergonomic potential, I just personally have to use it with a split keyboard with the halves on either side of the laptop. That way the motion of moving from trackpad to keyboard and back is a bend at the elbow, while the wrist stays straight.

Huh, interesting. I already bend my arm at the elbow when using the trackpad. However, I find the finger position painful if I'm using the trackpad intensively for a while (think lots of scrolling during random web browsing).

A few months ago I have discovered the joys of using a trackball and I think a great setup would be to fit the that between the halves of a split keyboard. I suppose a Kinesis Freestyle or similar could accommodate that.

That being said, even though I absolutely love the mbp trackpad and find the keyboard ok-ish (I have an older, 2013 model), I don't like using it with an external screen. It feels somehow off.

I've always wished for an external trackpad and keyboard combo in this layout, basically a Macbook without the screen to use with your monitor setup. Reaching to the side for the trackpad frequently seems much slower and less ergonomic. Plus the fixed relative layout of the trackpad and keys helps orient myself.

> I've always wished for an external trackpad and keyboard combo in this layout, basically a Macbook without the screen

I'm pretty sure I saw something like that from lenovo. I can't find it anymore, all I got is this:

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/accessories-and-monitors/keyboa...

Magic Trackpad, of course :)

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