Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole
blog.scottlogic.com
blog.scottlogic.com
I like Ergodox, especially because of their super flexible configuration, but I dislike the flatness of the keyboard compared to the Kinesis and last time I looked, they limited the length of macros "so you don't store passwords in them".. ehh, that's a stupid reason for adding limitations. As an adult, I can make my own decisions on what I store in my macros, thanks (I use a password manager, so its not passwords)
Even if you use a password manager you can still benefit from storing your master password as a macro, that allows you to have a very long one (at least up to 32 characters) without suffering the negative effects of that (it being a pain in the ass to type all the time).
It doesn't seem unsafe to me, although at first glance it's reasonable to be suspicious. Macro memory is lost if the keyboard is unplugged for a short amount of time, like if somebody swiped it off your desk. Nobody will know you store your password in your keyboard unless you tell them. It may be difficult to even figure out what key combinations trigger the macro; you can make it very complicated with multiple layers. As far as I know, there is no way to pull the layout back off the Ergodox and view it in the configuration tool, so you couldn't just easily look up what the macro combo is. You use 2 factor on everything important anyway right?
If somebody had access to your keyboard to do this, it would be much easier to just plug a keylogger in between the keyboard and PC.
EDIT: it seems likely I misinterpreted what they meant.
In response to the parent, you can configure longer macros using QMK directly.
I looked into it as a potentially more mobile alternative to the Kinesis but decided to stick with the Kinesis.
I'm hoping if my current keyboard ever dies Kinesis will have a new QMK-based version that comes in two halves, or that the Dactyl Manuform becomes something that you can buy a solid transportable version of.
Just took a look, doesn't really look much difference. I mean the 3d curvature of the keys, your hand is kinda in a semi circular channel. I just find it comfortable, especially to reach the furthest rows of keys from the home row. Its not a huge deal, just something I like about the Kinesis. I also use the Kinesis foot pedals -- does something similar exist for the Ergodox? I didn't see one at my quick look, but I also didn't look very hard.
For the bowl shape, you'd need to look at something like the Dactyl Manuform I mentioned.
Many split keyboards transfer keypresses from one side to the other via simple audio cables, I believe footpedals could be spliced in there too, but that's just speculation.
But the only real advantage to the ErgoDox over the Kinesis in my opinion is that it runs QMK: the key-wells are more ergonomic and the thumb cluster is better positioned because of the slight vertical height difference. And if you get a Stapelberg converter[1] PCB made, it doesn't look that bad to add.
[1] https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2013-03-21-kinesis_custo...
I recently grabbed a keyboardio atreus for travel and laptop use. Not nearly as ergonomic as the dactyl, but still a very nice keyboard in it's own right.
Although the Kinesis is actually very easy to mod, and there are quite good resources on replacing the microcontroller with something that can run QMK. If you're not familiar, here's a link[1] to a PCB design that will route the ribbon cables to a Teensy.
[1] https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2020-07-09-kint-kinesis-...
To be honest, I just wish they had an ortho version of the FS Pro.
The market may be there though, since the Advantage has basically been the companies main product for RSI mitigation for decades and not gamers wanting a split to get the mouse closer in.
Kinesis advantage 2 is for the first kind and ergodox is for the fanboys
The most efficient tools are usually the most ugly and boring ones
Just to take my own example, I’m unable to use the Kinesis Advantage because the bones in my right wrist are curved following an old injury. I’m physically incompatible with that keyboard.
But split keyboards work great for me! I can rotate one side to accommodate my arm’s curve. Kinesis Freestyle is great for this. Ergodox also works.
By your logic, I guess this makes me a fanboy?
My point is that different people have different ergonomic needs, requiring different devices. It’s stupid as hell to turn this kind of thing into in-group status symbol pecking. The market for these devices exists because one size does not fit all.
There are some specific use case in which Ergodox is better but most of the time the best choice is to go with Kinesis.
Probably could have said just this and it would have communicated your point without coming across as a condescending asshole.
> Kinesis advantage 2 is for the first kind and ergodox is for the fanboys
Maybe it's true, but I bought the Moonlander (same brand as ergodox) for ergonomic reasons. It allowed my hands to be more in line with my shoulders and reduced shoulder pain/tightness I would have at the end of the day.
I want to try the Kinesis advantage, but one thing stopping me is the fact that it's not a split keyboard. I think it's likely my natural arm position is wider than the Kinesis.
> The most efficient tools are usually the most ugly and boring ones
I think there's some truth to this, but speaking it as such an absolute truth seems misguided.
* More affordable.
* More portable.
* More configurable, both hardware and software.
Under your last statement, an Ergodox would be the more efficient tool for quite some people.
This seems a good place to bring up an odd experience of mine. I've had carpal tunnel for decades but no longer get many flare ups. After trying numerous keyboards, the solution turned out to be using Apple's Magic Keyboard and whatever their huge trackpad is called. The key for me seems to be low key travel, a smallish keyboard (to avoid any stretching), and avoiding mice (the only flare ups I get anymore are from prolonged use of the family PC). This seems to run counter to most experiences, though!
2. Practice hanging from a pull-up bar. Calisthenics routines often include "passive and active hangs" and doing these for long holds is a good grip trainer.
https://frictionlabs.com/blog/taping-fingers-in-rock-climbin...
But ask your doctor how to stabilize your hand optimally.
And again start slow no weight on the hands, it's about moving them, not overload them (at least in the first 3 month..or more)
Oh and Gyroscopes are extremely good for warmup and for breaks at work.
And no painkillers when you do climbing/boulders.
Gyroscopes are just straight up torture devices for me, as in, 10 seconds and i am out ;)
I tried out one of those generic massage guns at a friend’s place. I had scoffed at the infinite variations I saw advertised on Instagram, but I tried it on those small muscles and: wow. It helps me a lot. I can really massage out my forearms. There’s no way it's strong enough to work on knots in big muscles like quads, but for those little extensor muscles? Seems to help me.
I’ve also been helped by what are called, broadly, “tennis elbow compression pads”. (Linked to Amazon below—not recommending this particular brand, it’s just what I have.). I wear theses at night if I’m having pain, and it seems to help.
Now, the actual solution to my problem boils down to “use a full keyboard and mouse, and don’t bend your arms like a t-rex”, but, well, Pokémon.
(https://www.amazon.com/Tomight-Elbow-Brace-Tennis-Compressio...)
The Theragun can do my quads well if I hit the trigger zones. I used to be a national ranked mogul skier so these aren't ordinary quads lol.
I'd say foam rolling, active pressure release, deep tissue massage, dry needling, trigger point release, acupuncture, acupuncture with tens are all very similar. But percussive therapy with a theragun is easier and something you can do on yourself in ten minutes.
For me, the thing that makes the most difference is a low travel switch and a compact layout. Ideally, ANSI.
I've found Apple Magic Keyboard to be good enough.
Regarding mice, I also like their Magic Trackpad or a Logitech Trackman. It's a shame the latter is not as smooth as the 1990s model.
Everything works great under Linux. Except for Logitech having issues with power saving via USB. But that's a given in all their devices. They should get their stuff together. It can be solved with a udev rule, though.
Rather than the hand sweeping all the way over to the right to reach the mouse, it just twists a little towards the trackpad. The palms never really leave their rests.
I don’t use it like this a lot, but when I do I enjoy it.
I'm pretty sure I saw something like that from lenovo. I can't find it anymore, all I got is this:
https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/accessories-and-monitors/keyboa...
That said, I love the Mac trackpad and it has great ergonomic potential, I just personally have to use it with a split keyboard with the halves on either side of the laptop. That way the motion of moving from trackpad to keyboard and back is a bend at the elbow, while the wrist stays straight.
A few months ago I have discovered the joys of using a trackball and I think a great setup would be to fit the that between the halves of a split keyboard. I suppose a Kinesis Freestyle or similar could accommodate that.
That being said, even though I absolutely love the mbp trackpad and find the keyboard ok-ish (I have an older, 2013 model), I don't like using it with an external screen. It feels somehow off.
The only setups I can use for >1month are the Kinesis Advantage and MX Ergo, or the butterfly keyboard and trackpad.
I've chocked it up to the super low travel keys and not having to put any force on the trackpad.
Besides that I've tried the MS Sculpt keyboards plus all sorts of mechanical and chiclet keyboards. None of them have been comfortable
I (used to) have to use my laptop a lot (meetings, traveling), so it didn't work for me to have a different keyboard at my desk. Then when I got stuck at home, I dug out my old kinesis but it was just too much effort to press those keys, and the cursor keys were just too far away. I could feel the muscles in my arms complaining.
But the pronation and ulnar deviation was a pain, so I bought another one, so now I can angle them perfectly for each hand. If you want to try it you'll need karibiner [1] so that the cmd keys work across keyboards.
I'm still using the magic mouse because I found click-drag with the trackpad to be shitty. Is there a trick to that?
Not sure how the magic mouse works, but there's "drag hold" on the trackpad. You "double tap and hold". Tap once, and on the second tap you don't lift your finger off the trackpad, but start moving it around.
Conveniently located outside the trackpad settings, in Settings -> Accessibility -> Pointer control -> Trackpad options -> Enable dragging. https://imgur.com/a/oSrPyDB
You may have to activate tapping (as opposed to pressing the trackpad).
"Without drag lock" actually does lock, but only for a short time. "With" locks until you click again. "Three finger" is new to me, never tried it.
edit: screenshot
before that I overused my right hand - both for the mouse and things like the arrow keys, enter and backspace.
My solution was to reprogram the layer key to be a null key that doesn't do anything, so instead of "Y equals your keyboard is now broken" it was "Y means nothing happens". I kept it that way for a couple weeks, until my nervous system was rewired, and turned it back into a layer key.
These days, the remaining problem is that I've moved a few 'glyph' keys, so when I'm on the laptop my fingers go to the wrong place when I try to type e.g. "-". It's like I have two modes with substantial overlap, and sometimes it takes awhile to switch to the laptop mode.
Not the end of the world, and more than made up for by the convenience and ergonomics of the Ergodox.
Edit to add: from this and other reports, it's clear that for some people, the ortholinear layout requires substantial adjustment. I wasn't one of those people, it was a rapid accommodation and I don't consciously notice switching between ortholinear and staggered. It would be nice if there were a way for people to guess which category they're in, before shelling out $300 and change on a keyboard!
Of course, that was for prose. It took a month or so to arrive at a satisfactory layout for all the symbols, having suddenly dropped to 48 keys. Though thumbs are so useful! Using them only for spaces is criminal.
Still use a laptop on the couch at home for casual stuff. Still can't type properly on it.
Not much point to this comment, I guess, other than that I highly recommend anyone to borrow someone's plank/preonic/ergodox for a day or two if they'll let you, and bang out some prose. You might be very pleasantly surprised!
Especially painful as I’m in Australia. I think shipped it was about AU$500. Very not cheap indeed. I sold it on eBay and didn’t take too much of a haircut.
My other concern with the mega-custom layout is the fact that I often use ‘normal’ keyboards. I didn’t want to get used to some special situation and then not be able to use it. (Same reason I’m not putting time in to Colemak.)
Now I just use the Microsoft thing. It does the job.
I used a traditional keyboard, and could not stop peeking at it. I of course remember where each key is, but aligning my hands to it was periodically required, so that I could keep hitting the right keys.
Then I used a traditional-layout split keyboard. It was easier on my arms, but not much on my hands, and I still needed to peek at the keyboard(s) to readjust my fingers. The fact that traditional keyboards shift rows of keys half-width side to side every row, like bricks in a wall, was an obvious obstacle.
Now I got an Ergodox EZ. Its keys are in straight columns, and this helps me a lot. Many keys went to the thumb cluster, lowering the load on pinkies. Then modifier keys went to the home row, and stuff like Ctrl+shift, next to the home row, which helps immensely when using Emacs or VSCode.
My problem with Ergodox is that its pinky columns are uncomfortably positioned for my hand, I still have to move the hand a lot to hit P or Q. Also, a number of keys are hard to reach without moving the hand a lot, which sort of makes little sense when you have layers.
Mechanical switches are also a tough issue. Stuff like MX blue or Gateton green give good tactile feedback, but are loud and take effort to press. MX browns are not quiet enough to count as quiet, and give too little feedback in exchange. Gateron clears are my current choice: not ideal, but at least quiet and soft.
So my next idea is a Kyria with Kailh choc blue (25g) switches. In particular, it should make typing a P easy, and there are no extra keys to force your hand off the home row position.
BTW I wish "normal" keyboards, especially in laptops, took some ideas from the QMK firmware, or adopted it as is. Particularly home row modifiers and the idea of layers are very useful. Layers are currently implemented in a crude way with Fn keys on many laptop keyboards, so customers already are acquainted with the idea.
I completely agree! I believe that System76 laptops allow complete customization of the firmware, including the keyboard.
Really nice to hear the voice of the author, the meta commentary on his own writing, and the proud glee he takes in captioning his doodles.
I did not believe you.
> I did what anyone else would do in my position. I wrote a driver.
Seriously, this is fantastic.
Essentially, there's a div before each paragraph specifying the timestamp in its id - all done manually. I use `querySelectorAll` to get a list of those divs, extract the timestamps from the IDs, and store them in an array.
In the audio's `timeUpdate`, I check which paragraph we're on, and if it has changed then scroll to the next sibling of the timestamp div.
No magic bullet sadly!
I'm going to try a separate numpad next I think so I can map some things on to that and have it just to the right to gain the extra key space.
https://github.com/mnemnion/ergodox/blob/master/readme.md
The keymap is at least laid out visually in a way that corresponds to where the keys are.
Much of this would be useless if you don't use a Mac, but perhaps the layout of glyph keys and navigation keys will prove useful to you.
I use it on Windows for .NET development mostly - I also tried to optimize it for the Slovenian language (to support čšžđć).
Such a shame.
I should probably remove the ErgoDone and Ergodox Infinity for consistency.
I want something with more columns. I get the "limited finger movement" idea, but sometimes it is necessary. I don't want to do crazy customizations of layout, I just want split (ortholinear, not required to solder) keyboard to replace my Microsoft Sculpt
For me, it took a laptop with a full non-english keyboard that enabled me to program it to whatever I wanted to (e.g. "this key is _press laptop localized key here_ that non-english char") but once programmed, it works as expected.
Granted, my non-english characters are still in latin characters though.
Also gets into the idea of personalized UI more generally. You can imagine something like Photoshop ought to adapt what tools it shows based on how someone uses it. Then again, that would make learning/teaching and sharing really difficult.
I also see another problem: lock-in and loss of productivity in other environments. For this reason I prefer to stick to everything as vanilla as possible: so that I can use another computer or keyboard and it "just works" because that's what I'm used to anyway.
Does it make them more productive? I honestly have my doubts. The number of times I've had to wait during a group project because a software update broke their keybinds, they're at another desk and are now slow because they don't have the muscle memory for 'standard' layouts, etc is not even close to zero. Even on their own systems, they spend significant time every week tweaking things. For many, I think it is a form of bikeshedding as much as anything.
Strong disagree on the second: Photoshop should absolutely not move controls around on some kind of magic guesswork basis. That would destroy visual/muscle memory and undermine the users sense of control and mastery. Bad news.
It would be pretty great if programs with tool palettes came with a configurator so that the user could deliberately move things around, remove and add tools, and otherwise customize. As long as it was saved in a plain-text config that they could move around, this would be a win, just like it is in text editors.
Pretty soon, your emacs is basically incompatible with everyone else's and your carrying around a 2k line .emacs file. Brief was the same way IIRC. The entire user community customized it into a million different environments tailored to each persons tastes.
But nope, it's dead, and the replacement isn't nearly as good.
When I was in grad school (before I had any ergonomic pains), I had my mouse on the left side at work, and the right side at home - so I was using both configurations daily.
Unfortunately, gaming while mousing lefty is often inconvenient. Many games are set up assuming your left hand is on the keyboard. In most cases you can re-bind the keys though.
As someone else said though, they are very susceptible to crap working its way under the membrane since its oddly shaped (and there are a bunch of individual sections IIRC). I've fixed the coffee on the keyboard problem a couple times by opening them up, and very carefully cleaning them (both the contacts and the membrane) with isopropyl and lint free q-tips.
2) Whatever the button on the left they threw between Ctrl and Windows destroys my mental memory constantly. I was hitting it all the time and never wanted it.
3) They moved Num Lock off the Numpad. Every time I need to find it I have to search because the new location is so counterintuitive and stupid.
4) Rather than one central location to check for the status of *lock, I have to look at keys scattered across the keyboard (including in non-intuitive locations such as "not on the num pad" for num lock)
5) They moved the Print Screen button to another place I'd never look for it.
I wasn't a fan of moving F6 to the left hand but would have gotten used to that eventually.
I had used the Ergo 4000 for 15+ years (and various older Microsoft ergos before that), but this made enough frustrating changes that caused me to look into alternatives out there. I ended up on the Kinesis Freestyle Edge. I didn't want to have to learn a radically different layout (Ergodox, Kinesis Advantage) and have to change every time I moved to a laptop or other machine, and the Freestyle gave me a mostly conventional layout, mechanical keys, and a physical split with enough tilt/tent to get to a very comfortable position.
The new pressure point took some getting used to, but I like it now in comparison to the 4000. The only real issue with that one was how easily it would break from spilling even just a small amount of water. I must have lost three of those that way over the years. Allegedly, the new one is more water resistant.
I've been very satisfied with it. I was skeptical about mechanical keyboards (even though I'm old enough to remember the original ones), but this thing has been a game changer. I will never go back to membrane keyboards, and the ergonomics of the Kinesis are perfect for me.
Microsoft still sells the 4000 for $50 though, and you can get it for as cheap as $35 if you hit an Office Depot with stock (pre-pandemic anyway, have no idea about the current retail situation).
https://www.microsoft.com/accessories/en-us/products/keyboar...
Along with a "#1 Best selling brand of ergonomic keyboards" icon that isn't on any of the other ms keyboards I just checked.
There have been times when they stopped producing them for a while and I thought they were done. But they have come back after a year or so.
Although, I was at best buy last year and they were $15 each and I bought the entire stock out of the store and its stashed in my attic. So maybe they are planning on an updated version. The only problem with them is really the keyboard feel is a little squishy, but nowhere near as bad as just about 99% of the other non mechanical keyboards out there.
MS has killed the intellimouse a couple times too, and they keep resurrecting it. And it keeps being this crazy good "sleeper" mouse. The latest "Classic Intellimouse" is again maybe the best tracking mouse out there. I just went through my mishmash of various high end mice and swapped them for the classics because I slowly over the span of a year or so (and lots of messing with the tracking on a couple high end logitech mice that cost 4x) came to the conclusion that it simply tracked better on the machine I had one plugged into. I have a desktop resolution that is crazy high, and the combination of sufficient acceleration+fine sampling required to land a mouse pointer on a small button somewhere on the screen is difficult on all but the best mice. I recently found myself struggling to do accurate text selection, swapped in the MS mouse and problem solved. The buttons and infinite scrolling thing on the Logitech/etc will be missed, but at the end of the day its about tracking, and MS again delivers.
I've been using the Natural Keyboard Elite since 2001. I'm on my second one, not because the first one broke, but because it was so dirty that I replaced it in 2012. Really regret getting rid of the old one.
I never liked the newer Microsoft ones as much, and I can't go back to a straight keyboard, so I'll have to go down the rabbit hole when this one breaks. This discussion has been really informative.
If you have medical reasons, I mean, I guess it's better than nothing, but this reads to me like the computing equivalent of moving into the woods and becoming a hermit.
The highs and lows, thinking that you've found the perfect layout, only to encounter an edge case which there's no solution for and giving up. The continual wishful thinking that "one more modification" and THEN I would have the perfect layout, without ever knowing if that's true. And then when do you stop? I couldn't find a point where I would ever stop, it was maddening. I used a Japanese keyboard for a while [1] to leverage the extra keys on either side of space bar, but then I realized that I probably wouldn't be able to use a laptop normally ever again, which was enough to snap me back to QWERTY.
In the end, I did end up going back to QWERTY, but with some modifications, which I really think improve the problems I have with the layout (sore pinkies) [2], most commonly from jupyter notebooks (hitting shift-enter). It also solves emacs pinky.
[1] - https://www.amazon.com/SolidTek-Keyboard-Languages-JAPANESE-...
Alt + 2 gets you 2. If you press 2 by itself, then you get tab.
A similar thing with 3. If you press 3 and release it, you get 3. If you hold 3 and press another key k, then you get Ctrl+k.
This works by using the "to_if_alone" feature in karabiner. e.g. https://karabiner-elements.pqrs.org/docs/json/typical-comple...
The default layout (mostly QWERTY, but split ortholinear) took a week or so to learn and has been totally fine. My only problem with it is that so many of the modifiers depend on my pinkies, which are my weakest finger.
Luckily, the default layout maps control as "hold Z key" which means my pinky doesn't need to travel as much, but it still leaves me with a sore pinky. I'm thinking of mapping a key like "O" that gets hit with a stronger finger like my ring, but inertia is great when changing a habit you've developed daily.
One thing I'll say about the ergodox is that you really notice it's value when you go back to your e.g. laptop's keyboard. Whenever I use my T495, I immediately notice that, while my typing speed is higher, it's putting a far greater strain on my hands and wrists (and back!)
I have not found a timeout value that will always register "word" when I'm typing at 110wpm and also Ctrl-r when I'm just lazily hitting that single hotkey :/ It's either too fast or too slow for some use cases.
I have read some posts from people that use layouts like that and it either seems they already type pretty slowly or they have RSI problems and it is worth it to them to slow down.
I can't remember a time where I've held z too long accidentally, but yes, z is less commonly used than e.g. O.
The pointer-finger vertical-middle keys that they default to Hyper and Meh, I changed those to both be Cmd on MacOS (would make them Ctrl on Linux). I set the bottom row and pinky keys to also have lots of modifiers & layer toggles, and my pinky-fingers can hit those modifiers/toggles when needed. Then moved basically all symbols to another layer on easy-to-reach keys.
This means I can type regular words as fast as I want, and can easily reach any symbol when I need it. Only downside is that it takes some adjusting and practice, but I personally think it was worthwhile
How are y’all handling shift? Left Shift is my pinky’s biggest pain. I saw this hold the key for shift option, people using that?
It's a tempting prospect, but I'm hard-pressed to sub-out any of those for modifiers. Maybe I can make it "hold enter" or something like that, but that seems like a dangerous prospect
But once I tries a split keyboard with a layout that really allows you to keep your hands in one position, I realized that moving my hand to a trackpoint or a trackball, and moving it to a mouse is an equal amount of disruption. At that, a mouse is a much more precise device.
You can also check the "J joystick" idea implemented on some really old laptops, where a regular key is turned into a joystick.
On iOS software keyboard, holding spacebar then swiping around moves the cursor. I’ve read that a blackberry android phone (Key One?) has similar on its hardware keyboard, but I’ve not seen one in real life or seen a video of that feature specifically (anyone know of one?).
I don’t see much about eyeball tracking these days; if I can look where I want the cursor to be, can’t I push a key to put it there? Surely with the rise of camera tech, computing power, and image analysis tooling that’s easier than it used to be?
The touchpad is in the middle area right above the right-thumb keys, within easy reach of my index finger without having to lift from the home row. Works great.
Good luck!
Are dvorak, colemak, etc also useful when writing in languages other than English?
EDIT: ok, found the answer to my question - depends on the language, but generally not so much. So, a question to multilingual layout geeks - do you learn the best layout for each language? Or do you just optimize the most used one and stick to whatever is the default for other languages?
I didn’t get used to it to use it exclusively; it’s too tuned for prose, extracting your hand carefully to use a mouse, not having an easy way to type anything one handed while holding a mouse or phone (e.g. hold a device type the serial number), awkward arrow keys and less convenient numbers, see “NAS” (Number And Symbol) mode on the diagram entered by right-thumb-down.
It’s been long enough now that I’d like to play with one again, for a bit of novelty.
[1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/DataHand...
The Azeron gaming keypad [1] has a similar design but it's mainly intended for gaming so you'd have to get two of them and do some remapping to use it as a proper keyboard.
I think the lalboard [2] and the other DIY efforts in this thread [3] are probably the closest thing to a modern DataHand right now.
Here's someone typing at 120 WPM on a lalboard [4]. It looks so effortless when compared to QWERTY [5].
I do wish we'd start to see some more mass produced DataHand-like designs. I've never used one myself but it does seem like it'd be comfortable to use.
[2] https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41422.800
[3] https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard
The 120WPM was a bit of a cherry-picked example. 95-100WPM is more of a typical average speed for me.
For anyone who also wants to get their feet wet in the world of custom keyboards it certainly isn't as daunting as you might think. You don't have to necessarily go ortholinear, and you certainly don't have to stray from QWERTY. In fact, just learning to properly touch type and making sure the "right" fingers are hitting the right keys goes a long way with a split keyboard.
I found a lot of my own wrist pain was from the unnatural position that your arms and wrists are in to support a non split keyboard + the unnecessary hand/wrist movement to hit keys with the "wrong" fingers. An ortholinear (or at least column linear) keyboard can go a long way in teaching you where your fingers are supposed to go as long as you are willing to spend a weekend or two learning how to type again.
If you are thinking of diving into making your own, I would recommend the following vendors for kits:
https://keyhive.xyz/shop https://keeb.io/ https://www.littlekeyboards.com/
But I myself have been using the Microsoft ergo keyboard for 20+ years. Any time I start a new job, the very first thing I do is request an ergo keyboard.
You can print out decent cases for it (although I prefer aluminum plates) and the switch quality you get with Zilents is far beyond anything offered by pre-built vendors. It’s about 1-2 hours to put together, you only need to solder switches which is super easy and kinda fun. Also you can customize the layout, meaning the size of keys used (1u backspace etc etc). Once you put it together any of these keyboards work OOB now programming is required and there is even a really nice new app (Via) that allows to do all the mapping (even lighting if that’s your thing) via GUI.
They use standard layout so you don’t have to relearn (I have Ergodox and I used it once - whatever the benefit it may offer over split keyboard is negligible compared to the downside of having to adjust to new keyboard and then possibly mess up decades worth of typing habits, so using regular keyboard which happens often still would suddenly feel awkward.
I have both (Quefrency 1 not 2 though) and not affiliated with Keeb people at all, just a happy customer.
Also I run both with blank keycaps so I guess I am a touch typist? Other keyboard I have are Ergodox, Kinesis Edge and Microsoft Sculpt. Quefrency / Sinc are simply leagues ahead of any of those, I can’t imagine using anything else.
I saw the split Ultimate Hacking keyboard and it looks nice and idea to have a custom thumb cluster or trackpoint it enticing, but the bottom row on Quefrency / Sinc covers maybe 80% of possible use cases I could come up with for thumb cluster and QMK layers + Karabiner Elements or similar easily handles the rest of the 20%. Losing the Zilent switches in favor of Kalih that the UHK uses is not worth any of the added customization options.
AMA if you’re curious, again, this may read like an ad, but i am in no way affiliated
EDIT: also I did go down the split keyboard path because I started to get serious elbow pain (tennis elbow) which was in part related to climbing but got really aggravated by the regular keyboard. Then I started to feel numbness in my pinkies and that was actually scary. It is beyond me how people who spend 6-8 hours typing can use regular keyboards after they turn 30
+100 on the zilents. Best things ever.
For anyone reading this and seeing all the craziness in the post and the linked comments, it's entirely do-able to learn multiple layouts/keyboards and keep them mentally separate. The key thing is to use them both regularly. It doesn't have to be an either-or proposition between "use the standard keyboard of the Earth" and "use this hyper-personalized one". You can in fact use both as long as you don't go cold-turkey and stop using a standard keyboard for six months.
Seems like there's a market here (not huge, but maybe growing?) for either a rent-with-option-to-own thing, or an exchange system wherein people can trade around to try them out.
I want to try a 40-key board so I’m trying to make more use of the layers.
I had a friend who went full dvorak and had a hell of a time just changing an airline ticket on my machine, though. A big chunk of this article is about relearning typing for new key layouts...
I do have to look at the keys if I'm not using Colemak though.
Having built an ErgoDox (from the online plans) I regularly use it and have good muscle memory for it. When I switch to a regular keyboard my muscle memory for that other keyboard kicks in and I'm able to use that one fine.
It's actually harder to switch from using my ErgoDox on Windows to the same ErgoDox on Mac because I use the bottom-left key for control on Windows and the bottom-right key for Command on Mac (both on the left-hand-side of the keyboard).
Even that's not too bad, but there is a noticeable 'switch over' time - maybe 5-10 minutes or so.
It takes me half an hour or so to adjust every time I switch machines. The laptop to mechanical isn't so bad, but in particular, the Dell and Lenovo keyboards have different orders of the Function and Control keys, and I constantly enter the wrong key combos if I'm coming from the other laptop. The transition from mechanical keyboard to the rubber ones on machines also leaves me using either too little force to register a key, or slamming my fingertips into the steel backplate at the bottom of travel. And the Fanuc CNCs are high-dollar, highly functional machines, but their keyboards - ugh! Mushy, wobbly, weird row/column spacing and alignment, weird layout... fortunately you can plug in a USB keyboard if you carry one with you, but otherwise I have to slow down to a hunt-and-peck crawl or I make constant typos in an environment where typos can be really expensive.
I do acknowledge that switching from a full size keyboard to a laptop, or from a laptop to a phone keyboard can be pretty smooth. And that the short time adjusting can easily be worth the effort, especially if you're going to be working on a given machine for a few hours. But if they are physically similar and functionally remapped then I don't think I could do it.
So drop the laptop on the doc, use a natural keyboard. Drop it on the desk at home, plug in a keyboard, etc.
Luckily, you can switch easily to Dvorak on most systems for the last couple of decades. Something that's less true once you start inventing your own layouts (though I think Colemak, Neo and Workman are decently suppprted).
Also, people who learned to touch type QWERTY suggest you can swap back even after learning a new layout. I never learned qwerty that well but return to standard nerd level of familiarity.
Like for me I hold down my right thumb key (which is also space if i were to just tap it) and that changes the layer allowing me type symbols like (){}[]<>.
In practice it's as if you were using shift to capitalize something and it becomes second nature very quickly.
Getting used to chording and layers is what allows you to eventually use less and less keys like the split 36 key board I use these days: https://kagizaraya.booth.pm/items/1235510
I think that these (btw interesing) articles on keyboards are particularly relevant to pepole who constantly type (or hobbyists).
I work with a keyboard all day long and also afterward for fun but I type only a fraction of the time. I also look at the keyboard when doing so, so I am slow. But I do not need to be faster (it would be great, though) and my hands are not in the same position. I am not sure a special keyboard would help pepole in my case.
When typing on the middle column, make sure that your fingers float freely, and the middle and ring fingers should move along with your index finger, e.g. when pressing the 'H' key, the middle finger should be hovering approximately between the 'J' and 'K' QWERTY position.
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/keyboards/craft.920-...
I've since become an ambidextrous mouse user. Rollerball for left, traditional for right.