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I find the slim Apple keyboards more comfortable too.

I understand the appeal of mechanical keyboards and I’ve owned an Ergodox EZ, Planck EZ, and Atreus, but the Apple Wireless I use is faster, quieter, easier to transport, more comfortable without a wrist rest, identical to the MacBook keyboard layout so easier to switch between, and even customisable via Karabiner (I put a numpad over the right home row with a modifier so I don’t have to stretch to the number row, and it works the same way on the MacBook keyboard too).

Failing to fall in love with mechanical keyboards can feel like a personal flaw because so many people in hacker communities fetishise them (and because I’ve spent hundreds trying them out only to sell them on or leave them in a drawer), so it helps to hear of others with the same experience!

> I don’t know why everyone wants keyboard with a long throw, like we are using typewriters.

I think it's just a sensation thing. It feels and sounds satisfying to press a mechanism and hear a thunk with each keystroke. I don't think there's any practical purpose.

Can't speak for others, but for me it's not a question of satisfaction and I absolutely hate loud keyboards (even if it's mine). The attraction for mechanical keys, for me, comes from the fact that I can type without having to press hard on the keys and without bottoming out. For me, the Cherry Brown and similar ("tactile bump, no click") are the best. They're tolerable noise-wise and have enough feedback.

Whenever I switch to my mac (2013 model) or work pc laptop (hp probook) I tend to miss a lot of keys because I don't press hard enough.

> The cherry browns on my one keyboard were okay, but not worth twice an old school Microsoft natural.

I have wished the this keyb never get out production. If I know in the past about it, I will buy a dozen to get spares.

Eventually I submit and try to do my own clone:

https://www.clubdelphi.com/foros/showthread.php?t=93558 (spanish forum).

https://imgur.com/a/By9YN2q

I was unable to do it curved, but with angles and the body on wood? It feel GREAT. I have browns I wish to get full silent but I don't get bothered by the noise (not that much heavier typist anyway).

But maybe, when nothing match your needs, go ahead and build yours!

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/

I have never ever done a hardware project, and I'm the kind of guy that is terrible at fine hand coordination, but build a keyboard is certainly a doable kind of project (and if have access to a 3d printer? much better!).

Consider too that exist a enough ecosystem to get or make to build anything you imagine with not that high cost (for a unique item).

If you ever get the notion to try again, I think you can vacuum form thick enough plastic to manage a keyboard case. Or at least with some metal as a skeleton to stiffen it sufficiently. I guess you’d have to weld (glue) mounting brackets to the back of the shell and that could be a serious pain...

Woodworking, I’m told, is a perfectly serviceable way to make a mold.

I'm in the same boat. Though I the feeling of pressing a button instead of squishing it, I don't care for typewriter-level noise and I greatly prefer the ergonomics of low-profile keys.

I switched back and forth between various mechanical keyboards and the Logitech K360 (which I also own multiple of) for years, but a while ago I stumbled upon a low-profile mechanical keyboard that hits the sweet spot for me: the Sharkoon PureWriter TKL with red Kailh switches [0]. (If you need a numpad, they also make a full-size version [1]).

We've been using them at the office for a few months now, and I've been so happy with it that I recently bought one for home as well. You can get them for < 100 euro, so if you're still interested in mechanical keyboards, you might want to give this one a chance.

[0] https://en.sharkoon.com/product/PWTKLRGB

[1] https://en.sharkoon.com/product/PWRGB

>Apple wired USB keyboard they discontinued

There are third party clones. I've been using this one for the past ~7 years and it's been wonderful.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?&_nkw=A4Tech+KV-300H

These prices are too high though, it costs about $20 where I live.

Mechanical keyboards seem like a example of creating a need through advertising instead of filling an existing need[0]. It worked well enough that I bought a $100+ mechanical thinking I was missing out. In a way you do get what you pay for since mechanical keyboards tend to last longer. But other than that they are not quantifiably better. For me I noticed my typing speed was reduced even after using it a couple weeks, so went back to low profile rubber dome and never looked back.

[0]: Actually I do not know the history here. What started the rush for mechanical keyboards? It feels like there was a point in time where they became fashionable, I assume it had to do with advertising campaigns but it could have been organic interest too.

Having a fifteen year old, my perspective is it’s the cool YouTube fetish object at the moment.

What I wonder about is why everything is a “group buy” basis. So none of these “companies” (mostly seems to be Shopify sites) have no cash to buy inventory or take any risk whatever? Or is the “group buy” kind of a hive-mind advertisement. “Oh others aren’t buying this ridiculous keyboard so I guess I should jump on too”

I just ordered for my son a 27$ 15g tube of some kind of bearing grease from McMaster Carr. All these keyboard shops sell it like its nectar of the gods. It’s just a normal specialty grease in fact. (Don’t ask me why a switch needs to be “lubed”).

Ah, thank you. I thought I was the only one to have a kid who bought a third keyboard.

It is not even a correct AZERTY (French layout) and it makes an awful nose but he seems to think that this is heaven. God for him.

He recently bought a pack of "better" keys and it seems that he is starting to realize that this is a rip off...

I can't type anything properly (subjectively) on a flat keyboard. For years I've used everything from Apple's slim keyboards, basic dell/hp, Microsoft's ergo series etc. and I always had the issue with hitting two keys with a finger or accidentally pressing down while moving my hands. It all changed when I got a MX blue keyboard.

The force needed for a key press has minimized the accidental pressings and only the keys I mean to press gets triggered. I was about to buy a MX Red from my buddy and I had to return it after a week when I started getting double presses again.

On Apple's wireless magic keyboard I type approx 90WPM and on Logitech's G710 blue 130WPM+.

I agree, my spare keyboard have red switches, but my daily driver is silver switches.

Despite all the negative reviews online about the MX silver speeds, probably by THUNK enthusiasts. It's wonderful to write on. I can write fast as normally, without feeling tired in my fingers.

https://www.cherrymx.de/en/mx-original/mx-speed-silver.html vs. https://www.cherrymx.de/en/mx-original/mx-red.html

> I don’t know why everyone wants keyboard with a long throw,

Because one does not need to hit the bottom and "shock" the fingers in order to activate the keys. With a mechanical switch the keys can be activated by partially pressing them.

The actuation force on scissor switches like the Apple Magic keyboard is very low (36.3 gf [1]).

That's less than tactile switches like Cherry MX Browns (45.4gf [2]) and Gateron Browns (38.7gf [3]).

So it seems to depend more on your typing habits than your switches. You can shock your fingers on any keyboard if you press harder than you need to.

Total travel (bottoming out) on the Magic keyboard is also only 1.15mm, which is almost half the actuation travel (“pre-travel”) on the Cherry/Gateron Browns (2.09mm/2.41mm). And the actuation distance is only 0.86 mm on the Apple, so once you get used to it you can use a fairly light touch; you don't have to press the key through the laptop/keyboard.

[1] https://www.rtings.com/keyboard/reviews/apple/magic-keyboard

[2] https://www.rtings.com/keyboard/reviews/kinesis/freestyle-ed...

[3] https://www.rtings.com/keyboard/reviews/obinslab/anne-pro-2

I think the problem with the "shocking" is not so much the actuation force, but the travel distance. I find it's pretty difficult for me to precisely (<1 mm) control finger movement. On a key with longer travel you have more of a margin of error if you will.

Going by your numbers, on the apple, you have 0.19 mm to "stop" your finger going down. Also, there's nothing to let you know actuation has happened. You just have to "know" by how long the finger has traveled that the key must have actuated.

Contrast that with the cherry where there's a quite some distance between the actuation point and the bottom. There's also a bump (except in linear keys) right around the actuation point, so you can actually feel the key is supposed to have registered.

So all in all, even though the actuation force of the keys is low, it's very easy to bottom out. Or rather, it's not easy not to bottom out. In my experience that's why those keyboards are less comfortable than MX browns and clones (I have no experience with other kinds of mechanical switches).

Wasn't there a study that suggested users of mechanical keyboards still bottom out for a reasonable percentage of keypresses even though their perception was that they stop on actuation? [Tried to dig it up but came up blank so far.]

I know this is true for gamers, who have to hold keys, but I suspect it's true when typing too. I found that longer travel distance alone doesn't prevent me from pushing through the tactile bump, so it's easy to develop a tendency to over-press should lighter keypresses fail to register.

I don't know about any such study, but I wouldn't be surprised, especially since many people who use regular keyboards have a tendency to hit the keys with a vengeance, as opposed to press them.

I agree with you that longer travel distance is not sufficient to prevent bottoming out. But for me it's necessary. I've been typing for almost 7 years on my current MBP and find I still tend to bottom out. I'm not sure I can not bottom out without paying a lot of attention. On a new mechanical keyboard with brown switches, I found I was able to stop bottoming out most of the time in about a week. It's just easier to do with the longer travel.

One last point to check would be how hard people are bottoming out, especially on switches that don't require a stronger force towards the end. I would think that even if the key might hit the bottom, it might do so with less force than on a shorter travel key.

As I'm thinking of it, at the office I have a MS Sculpt, which is rubber dome but with a reasonable travel distance and the keys don't require much force to push. I probably bottom out most if not all the time on it, but it doesn't seem as tiring. So I guess one main issue is the way people actually use the keyboards. It's possible many apply much more force that is necessary for their keyboard (whichever type it is).

I have tried using cherry browns before and they were definitely a bit too loud for office use. The one I have now is the Durgod Taurus K320 with Cherry Silent Red keys. It sits next to my microphone which doesn't pick up my keyboard at all or very little. You might have better luck trying linear switches with low actuation force but I am not sure what your definition of mushy is. I am trying to decide if my keys might feel mushy for you. I am not sure.

I nevertheless agree that the Microsoft Natural is amazing. I used to have the 4000 but it broke at some point. It's too bulky for me now though. I prefer TKL keyboards nowadays.

I feel the same way!

I tried a couple of mechanical keyboards (including ergodox) but I found the clacking sounds, the long key travel time, and just the bulkiness of the keyboards to be uncomfortable.

I found that there's a bunch of keyboards on Amazon that replicate the small keys. I'm currently using a wireless Jelly Comb keyboard but there's a bunch of similar ones. It's been my favorite so far!