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Comment by rsynnott | Hacker News Reader

This isn't a laptop and suffers from a bit of "neither one thing nor another" syndrome; it can be used as either a kinda awkward tablet, or a _really_ awkward laptop (good luck using one on your lap on a plane or train or something, say). I think a certain amount of scepticism is warranted.

If you _just_ want a laptop, a laptop will be far better than this thing. If you just want a tablet, an iPad will be far better than this thing. If you want both... well, maybe it works, as long as you don't want to use it in laptop-y scenarios and you're okay with Windows' tablet experience? It feels pretty niche.

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I disagree in case of Surface Book. I didn't try Go.

This is a powerful premium laptop which can be used not only for pleasant programming experience due to good keyboard and 4k screen but also gaming due to powerful GPU card. It does not get hot and loud as much as any traditional gaming laptop with the same GPU card because GPU and CPU are separated (GPU under the keyboard and CPU in the detachable screen). I mean this is like the biggest advantage of all Surface Book laptops that makes them powerful, silent and cool at the same time. It might be not as powerful as dedicated gaming laptops but it is better because it is not even half as hot and loud. And which of your gaming laptops can run at least two hours without a socket? Honestly, the battery life of my wife's Mac Air 2019 is laughable in comparison.

It is also a good tablet. The only disadvantage for as a tablet is battery life which is far less than in iPads and Android devices. But neither of them is 15 inch and is equipped with an iCore.

There is no alternative on the market for Surface Book 2. Recent Surface Book 3 might not be more powerful as the audience expected but I would go for it all the same just because how much more malleable this machine is. If you need a mobile pc, this is the one.

Funny how different people come to different conclusions. I have a Book 2 and I regret it almost every day. The dock constantly runs out of USB resources, when I detach the tablet the external screen configuration gets f...ed up in random ways forcing me to rearrange screens and font sizes for a few minutes, the tablet mode feels very awkward to use and for its spec and price the Book 2 is not very fast.

My company also HP Zbook laptops. Next time I will get one of those those again instead. Not a very elegant laptop but it works.

Emm, screen config not retained is an OS issue and not a laptop tbo. I agree that tablet mode is not convenient but you are free to stay in desktop mode. USB resources are not enough but I never ran out of USB ports because I have no use for them. I connect everything via Bluetooth, mouse, headphones. Mini display port for external monitor.

Yes, for the price of ~2k you can buy a more powerful laptop. But how less powerful a 1.5 year old Surface i7 with GTX1060 even nowadays? I think the whole performance debate is a big exaggeration unless you're getting into high-end gaming on 4k resolutions or deep learning. If I needed power, I would never go with a laptop no matter how powerful it is. Buy a PC because this is what they are for.

I am personally over with classical monoblock laptops with GPU and CPU squeezed together. It feels just dated.

“Emm, screen config not retained is an OS issue and not a laptop tbo”

My HP Zbook didn’t have these issues with the same OS. I could take it to a meeting, plug it back into the docking station and things would be like before. With the Surface in 80% of cases something gets messed up. I suspect it has something to do with the drivers.

The high res screen on it also causes problems forcing me to constantly adjust the font scaling.

In general, what’s the point of getting a very expensive Surface Book if it’s not really better ?

Emm, screen config not retained is an OS issue and not a laptop tbo

It is when the same company is making both.

> pleasant programming experience due to ... 4k screen

I opted for a 4k 15" screen when buying a new laptop, precisely for this reason. I was so disappointed to find out that I could barely see anything on the screen at 4k without using the magnification function, and that was before I needed reading glasses. I've been using it in 1080p ever since, and I regret not getting a 1080p native resolution, because mixed resolutions are a pain with multiple monitors.

> I've been using it in 1080p ever since, and I regret not getting a 1080p native resolution, because mixed resolutions are a pain with multiple monitors.

This is mainly a problem with Windows and some desktop Linux setups. macOS handles mixed DPI displays without issue.

I have a 1st-gen surfacebook, and this thing for sure is not quiet or cool. It can barely run MTG Arena at 720p, much less stream it at the same time. Forget about any serious game. It gets incredibly hot, especially on the GPU, as there's only one fan for the keyboard area pointing at the screen, and it's tiny. The fan on the tablet portion is woefully inadequate for an i7, so spins up shortly after start and never spins down. And the full metal chassis means the entire computer gets hot.

Perhaps the battery life might matter more if it actually slept when it was closed, but the large number of spurious wakeups in bag caused me to assume the battery will be drained whenever I arrive.

To be fair, I've been using my Surface Pro 4 for a bit over four years now, and pre-lockdown I was on 2 round-trip flights a month on average.

No issue whatsoever using it on the tray. On the contrary, my size and the reduced seat pitch in most narrow body aircrafts made my other machine (a 15" macbook) rather unusable.

Anecdotally, I tried OG Surface Pro back when it launched. On my lap the kickstand was extremely unstable; on high speed rail chairs the angle of kickstand was extremely steep and uncomfortable; on university desks and cafeteria tables it was okay but never good; only on airplane couches and Starbucks tables, which I’m not as privileged to say I use with frequency, it fit, at all.

The kickstand has reportedly improved since, but the problem is that it’s a highly engineered design for multiple but precisely pre-determined situations, with a limited adaptability.

Traditional laptop hinges on the other hand, oh they work beautifully between 0 to 1.1g under any posture, if you could put it on a lap or table it’ll be nice. That’s it. Way better than the kickstand.

Keep in mind the device "lapability" improved a lot in the subsequent iterations, for two reasons:

- the kickstand is now freely adjustable, you can set it at any angle (there are no pre-determined stops)

- the keyboard "sticks" to the bottom of the front side, this both gives the device more rigidity on your lap and improves the typing angle

I have never used an OG Pro, but I've used an RT and the difference is night and day

Same experience here. I hear the 'unusable on lap' sentiment seemingly often (including in the OP article itself). Yet, I honestly cannot tell is because it's only the ones with a bad experience speaking up and the rest remaining silent, or because there really is a problem I'm not aware of. And in both cases: I honestly wonder how that is possible? Is my body different in some way that I don't see the difference between a Surface and a laptop for lap use? Or do I do things in another way than others? Are my legs longer than average? I mean I just put my legs next to each other, put the thing somewhere on my lap, screen like 15cm in fron of my knees, adjust the stand so it's in an angle I normally use and that's it. The only problem I could see is that if you'd want the screen to be roughly where your knees are that is impossible. But for me that distance is just a bit too much to be able to read text comfortably and I cannot rest my arms anymore because of how far the keyboard is.

https://msegceporticoprodassets.blob.core.windows.net/asset-...

This image is from Microsoft.com. Think how much his upper torso will have to bend to look at the middle of his thighs.

Sure, but the image shows a desktop. I'm talking about differences of the Surface vs a 'standard' laptop when used on your lap.

I’m talking the combination of a chair similar to that and Surface devices. I guess people who don’t have problems with Surface sits less often in surfaces that high and upright.

That seems very awkward versus a laptop, though; in particular you'd have stay very still. I'd expect it to be particularly problematic on a bus or train, where there was movement.

The hinge is sturdy so in comparison with a laptop you don't have one big contact area with your legs but the bottom of the kickstand and the botom of the machine itself which don't move with respect to each other. The bottom of the keyboard kan move wrt the rest but only in one plane. I don't see how movement of whatever you're sitting on changes much in how the thing sits on your lap. I also don't encounter that when I'm on a bus or so.

In theory the lap thing can be fixed with a third-party keyboard (when it gets released). I've been patiently waiting for something like this for my surface go because you're spot on - lap use is basically impossible. Time will tell if it's any good:

https://www.brydge.com/pages/designed-for-surface-tablets

I agree a laptop is a better laptop but for a tablet I find surface much better than ipad, and at a pinch (like on vacation) I can use a bluetooth keyboard and do some urgent work on it.

I've never understood this complaint. I've had multiple Surface Pros and have never had problems with it in my lap, even on long train rides abroad.

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