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Comment by Reason077 | Hacker News Reader

Sadly, this is the opposite of the UK cultural attitude. Kids here learn that cleaning up is someone else’s responsibility. Littering becomes a habit from an early age.

Even compared to Americans, we are terrible litterers. You can see this in people’s behaviours in fast food restaurants: in the US (as in many other countries), customers will bin their food wrappers and return their tray when they leave. Even groups of kids will typically do this: it’s just habit. In the UK, typical customers will just leave their mess at the table when they leave. Cleaning is someone else’s job.

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Oh man this is so true and one of the big things that really stuck out to me when I first moved here. In the states i was used to seeing trash along the highway, but walking down city streets are relatively clean. Here in the UK when i walk down the street I'm now used to seeing tons of plastic bottles and empty crisp packs in the hedges. And you completely nailed it, cleaning is someone elses job.

The IRA is in part to explain.

> The IRA is in part to explain

I’ll bite. Why?

Removal of bins from public places.

Correct.

Though as the article notes, Japan similarly has few rubbish bins.

For the same reason. There were some bomb and ricin attacks that prompted that.

France also removed most public bins in Paris after bomb attacks in the 90s (I think) but they ended up replacing them with hoops to which transparent plastic bags are attached. I'm not sure on the timeline (ie how long it took them to go from "no bins" to "crappy bins") but this seems like an okay solution. The lack of public bins in Japan is mildly infuriating

I remember the shock of moving from Tokyo to London. Despite of London not being the dirties of the cities I saw in my life, the gap is huge. Litter is everywhere even when the trash bin can be found close by. People do not respect public places, walking with your shoes on benches is normal, no one removes their shoes anywhere (example: I even saw people walk with shoes on in the soft play area where small kids are crawling touching and licking everything around,) toilets in restaurants are so dirty that I try to avoid using them if I can help it, dog's poop on the pavement, tons of bubble gum on the pavement, too. The drop that overfilled the cup was seeing bunch of young people walking from pub to pub, one of them left with glass half of beer in his hand (red flag already,) drunk few more times, and threw the glass with the beer, what's left of it, in the flowery spot. In the city center, middle of the day. It's so depressing...

Sounds like San Francisco. Just swap dog poop with human poop, and a glass of beer with a needle of heroin.

I was driving in Britain with a friend from New Zealand and he said how shocked his family was at the litter in Britain. He mentioned a UK tourist family who were rude and uncouth and became notorious for their "rampage" through NZ. Their greatest sin, and the one that first got them publicity, was littering.

It's kind of a class thing though, and not down traditional class lines. There are a lot of families for whom littering would be completely out of the question.

Whoa, that sucks. Out of curiosity, do people in UK tip? In the states, if there's no tip, then it is expected for the customer to clean up after themselves.

>Out of curiosity, do people in UK tip?

Not in a fast-food restaurant, no.

You'll often see folks in cafés help out and return their trays, but it's not a guarantee - and in some establishments it's not even possible for you as a customer to do this. At the end of the day, you're paying to sit down - and clearing your table afterwards is priced into the food offer.

Fast food is a bit more of a grey area, since there's not necessarily table service. I'd throw away my rubbish at e.g. Burger King - there's usually bins provided for this purpose.

I tidy up or not based on whether there's table service. No table service = I do it myself, table service = it's somebody else's problem. I don't think anybody ever taught me this explicitly - it's just something I must have picked up, I suppose?

I don't think it's really all that outrageous to just leave the detritus on the table in either case. But when there's no table service, the tables won't be getting cleared so regularly, so it can make things inconvenient for the other patrons.

There area a lot of edge cases with this scenario. In some fast food restaurants (such as certain Burger King locations), you will get a number and the employees will bring the food to you, so there is a minimal form of table service. Also, the history of the country matters as well. In China, where there is no tipping culture, but fast food started out as fancy expensive foreign food not too long ago, the employees are expected to clean up, even as prices are now lower relatively compared with moderately expensive restaurants. On the other hand, in Korea, where there also is no tipping culture, fast food is now cheaper food, and you clean up after yourself.

In the UK, we generally tip for a great service. If I buy a meal and the food and service is just fine, then no tip. Though if the food and service are great, I will generally tip 10 - 20% depending on how generous I'm feeling at the time. Tips generally aren't expected, and you won't be shamed if you don't tip.

I would clean up after myself somewhere like McDonalds or Burger King, though in a cafe or restaurant I wouldn't. In a restaurant I usually put the plates together to make it easier for the waiter or waitress to clear the table and try not to be too messy.

There's usually a 12.5% service charge in restaurants, but I've rarely seen tipping (I'm a foreigner living in London)

That 12.5% service charge is a tip (you don't have to pay it if you don't want to, and it will generally go to the servers).

How can you refuse to pay? It's part of the bill, isn't it? In most restaurants I've been so far at least. Also foreigner, so maybe I am missing something.

You can say you don’t want to or state some other total you’re going to pay that’s >= to the rest of the bill. Obviously that’s awkward and that’s why they make it the default, but you can pay less/no service charge/tip if you want to.

> Cleaning is someone else’s job.

Well... yeah if you're eating in a restaurant, then yes it literally is someone else's paid job to clean your table. That's what makes it a restaurant.

Do you also criticise people who go to a restaurant and expect someone else to cook their food?

Or people who get a taxi and then expect someone else to drive?

In a fast food restaurant where there is a bin where customers are supposed to throw their trash then I’m assuming I’m actually not paying to have it done.

That is: there isn’t staff enough to handle it, and those that leave their tray just ensure that prices go up (since they are using a service they didn’t pay for).

I have never left a tray in a fast food restaurant in 40 years.

I would imagine most restaurants wouldn't want customers walking around clumsily with trays of dirty plates. They don't know what they're doing and they'd be brushing past other customers unnecessarily. In a restaurant you're paying for an experience and I think it's totally reasonable for part of that experience to be someone clearing plates away after courses.

I think it's usually obvious. If return tray holder (or trash bins in case of fast food place) is open to customers = customer is expected to return.

I'm talking about McDonalds, Burger King etc. Every single one here has had places for customers to not just bring their trays but actually separate cardboard, liquids, plastics, food, other, and THEN return the tray. That has been the case for probably at least 15-20 years. Before that it was also bring the tray back, but just a trashcan, no recycling.

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