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Comment by blhack | Hacker News Reader

Haha, “changing electronic music” is a BIT of a stretch here, NYT. These are definitely fun toys, but if anything these are just entry points into analog synthesis.

Eurorack modules, and the massive DIY community around them are changing music. Ableton live is changing music. Behringer making super cheap, high quality synth modules is changing music.

Teenage engineering does make some really cool stuff though. Now get on making more OP-1s please!!

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>, but if anything these are just entry points into analog synthesis.

I just saw several demos of this Pocket Operator on Youtube and what I saw was more of a sampler than an analog synthesizer.

Samplers are more about sound clips manipulation. Analog synths would be more about waveform generators, sine/sawtooth/square, oscillators, envelopes, etc.

E.g. Pocket Operators makes it easy to record some percussive sounds. It auto-analyzes the input for transients and chops them up at boundaries. It instantly maps multiple pitch-shifted versions of those sounds to the buttons. Users then have a quick DIY drum machine that triggers custom sounds.

If these devices can also do traditional analog synthesis, none the Youtubers I browsed demonstrated that capability.

EDIT based on replies: Yes, I now see that searching youtube for specific devices such as "PO-14 Sub" or "PO-16 factory" will show the demos that manipulate synth sounds. Searching only for generic "pocket operator" gets you the sampler demos.

"Pocket operator" is just the size of the device they're making. There are lots of them from samplers (like you're seeing) to little synthesizers: https://teenage.engineering/products/po#features

Regardless, these are driving the concept of small, packagable audio devices, which eventually leads to modular synthesizers.

Stupid question, but what is the advantage of having this as a hardware device instead of an iPad/Phone App?

Most importantly: having real physical controls (buttons, knobs, etc) makes a huge difference. Tapping fingers on a hard glass surface just isn't the same.

Also, the joy of a single-purpose device which makes it easier to get deeply into it. Also means no notifications or other distractions.

They fit a little easier into certain audio chains too. The POs have an in and out audio jack and use them to synchronize with a lot of other small instruments so they all play at the same tempo and can start and stop all at once.

They look cooler and have actual buttons and knobs?

I'm not sure if a generic phone's DA converter can match the signal quality of a specialized circuit.

The Pocket Operators are just a generic DAC+amp chip, the Cirrus CS42L52. The DAC is driven by a 48MHz MCU with just 32K of RAM. If it were purely a question of technical / hardware capabilities it would all fit into an app ten times over.

http://hackingthepo.weebly.com/ has a terrifically detailed teardown of a PO-16. Or SiLabs (the MCU's manufacturer) did a marketing video / interview with one of the Pocket Operator's designers about the hardware design: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjrOnlMkJHU

Marx and Mumford may approve of this approach. The batteries are cheaper.

Every model of Pocket Operator has totally different capabilities. Some can sample, some are synthesizers, sequencers, drum machines, etc.

Some are analog, a couple do sampling or simple VST controlled sounds.

None are analog. They make make analog-style subtractive synth sounds, but all the PO’s are completely digital devices.

Besides, isn't it also a stretch to compare the sales (in number of pieces)?

Korg M1 (in 1988) US$ 2,166:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korg_M1

Pocket Operator US$ 60 (today)

Comparing instrument sales numbers at all for influencing music is crap. It just takes one instrument to make a great recording that changes things.

The famous 808 and 909 drum machines? Only 12,000 and 10,000 units ever made respectively. But I don't see song titles referencing the pocket operator :P

The TB-303 was a commercial failure at acting as a bass guitar synthesizer. Then years later Phuture cranked that resonance knob and created acid house.

I mean, that knob was like, right there all along

;-)

That made me angry too. By a similar rationale, vintage Moog, SC, ARP etc. are insignificant compared to non-programmable Casios of the 80s.

I was thinking that as I read it. Korg volcas would have been a much better comparison.

If teenagers listen less commercial electronic music and making it by themselves that is a change for a good direction.

Hm, honestly, Being into analog synthesis is one thing, and making music is another. That has always been a thing I hear, fun toys are not meant for serious music. I believe you can use anything to create music. I own two of these pocket operators and I already create music with them. If you can sample sounds from anywhere, why would these devices just be toys?. I don't see them as that, unless you're an analog synthesis person that is looking to patch like crazy, which is another story.

Not sure about that. If it's introducing a whole bunch of people to music production who would otherwise find it too intimidating or expensive to get started, that seems like it's changing it. Perhaps in a different way than some of the other stuff you're citing.

>If it's introducing a whole bunch of people to music production who would otherwise find it too intimidating or expensive

Yeah, that's what Ableton Live / FL studio / etc have been doing for decades.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Pocket Operator, but using a drum machine in a DAW or even a cell phone app is far easier. Just a bit less fun.

I'd say Teenage Engineering was never aimed at beginners. If you are just starting up in the synth world, Korg Monologue is a fantastic piece of equipment.

Was about to say the same thing. TE makes great products, but those had barely any impact on the music production world.

The quality of DAWs, the availability of great free VSTs, endless YouTube tutorials and tons of avenues for sharing one's work is what created the current environment of hyper productivity.

New entrypoints are a change; they're just a change that takes a while to develop fully. More people get into electronic music who otherwise mightn't've, and they bring their perspectives with them.

Don't forget Elektron.

It's akin to a fidget spinner if you ask me, barely worth 60$ itself.

I've been making music for 20 years and this looks like a glorified (though pretty basic) calculator modified to play notes. Real meaningful music compositions can't be created with it, and I doubt it's going to replace keyboards in studios. Just imagine a studio engineer hooking that tiny POC up to a professional mixing desk for a few bleeps?... :/

If anything is evolving in terms of creating grammy award level music it's probably going to be software on laptops and iPads first.

I'm still waiting for DJ culture to change 8 years after this video was made - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPZaZndMOzw

Not many impressive things have come to the music world since VST (software) synths, beatport, and Serato began to rise (Serato is still terrible BTW), but the music industry needs a lot more innovation injected into it.

> I'm still waiting for DJ culture to change 8 years after this video was made - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPZaZndMOzw

Dude, I was using Virtual DJ (which became AtomixMP3, and then Atomix Virtual DJ) literally 20 years ago. Got grandfathered into an amazing license that gives me free upgrades for life...

There's not really much new since then. Oh, sure, more effect plugins (gimmicks), better sound quality and stretching, better looping, but overall it's the same damn thing with slight improvements now and again. The problem is not the tools, or even necessarily the interface; the problem is thinking that DJ culture is going to "change".

See, you've got your technically talented DJs, and you've got your just-hit-play-and-dance DJs, and ultimately 99% of the people in the crowd cannot tell the difference. Success for the DJ themselves is based on networking and promotion, not the actual music; trendsetting / tastemaking is largely independent of what's actually being produced. Otherwise, would such bland music _still_ be their stock in trade? People want to dance, give them what they want.

Hoping for better in this industry is kinda pointless.

Another way to think about it is that the contemporary dance sound is determined by whatever the hot gear is, and not by the artists using it(because they are disposable figureheads).

And the gear market itself, well, it's also looking out for number one here. Most of what one needs for any traditional music style - and hence, caters to all the session players that provide the real technical skills - is covered by the big manufacturers with a workstation keyboard or equivalent multi-gigabyte sample library. The remainder has to exist on being a "cool toy", and there are a lot of ways to be a cool toy, but most of them involve providing a lot of presets so that DJs that do not know what a "major chord" or a "filter cutoff" is can still sound like heroes. Alternately, the cool toy can replicate a grody 40-year-old analog signal path so that anyone who lusts after yesteryear's gear can have the same sound without the space or costs involved in having the real equipment.

Among those three markets, space for defining really new sounds and styles in the form of a product is limited, but it does keep happening year-over-year.

This device doesn't have to do it all right?, it does actually give inspiration to people to create different sounds to complement a larger setup, or not, I have seen people make great meaningful music with no expensive equipment at all. Also, very important, making electronic music does not imply it's part of a DJ Culture. It can be, but not necessarily.

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