Teenage Engineering has won over kids and professionals with a synthesizer | Hacker News Reader

Teenage Engineering has won over kids and professionals with a synthesizer

nytimes.com

253 pointsmitchbob164 comments

This reads like a promo piece for Teenage Engineering. The credit for the mini-synth revolution really belongs to Tatsuya Takahashi, the designer of Korg's groundbreaking Volca instruments. His Monotron synth was launched nearly five years before Teenage Engineering launched the Pocket Operator series. The Monotron is pocket-sized, fully analog, is musically useful and is supplied with a complete schematic; this last feature sparked a renaissance of circuit-bending and modding.

https://www.korg-volca.com/en/

https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2017/12/22/569092364/...

The Monotron may be first, but it's not nearly as popular and influential as the Pocket Operators or the Volcas.

Disagree, people went nuts over the Monotron because up to that point all the established synth companies had been saying 'analog is too expensive, be happy with digital' and boutique manufacturers couldn't compete due to economies of scale and relatively high setup costs.

With the Monotrons, Korg made a risky reputational bet on the idea that Pick-and-place assembly technology and tiny modern components could deliver the low costs and satisfying sound that synth nerds expected, selling the same functionality for $60 something that people were used to paying $300 to get. Any toy manufacturer could have done this of course, but Korg recreated the widely-loved MS-20 filter, making it irresistible to analog fetishists - at a price low enough for consumers to take a risk on it not sounding 'as good as the original'. Except that...it did. So then they repeated the stunt with two other Monotrons.

Then they built a larger one for double the price that had a more fully featured monosynth in it, and around the same time started dropping schematics publicly and encouraging people to modify them. By the time the Volcas hit the market the bleep squad was fully in love with Korg after a 30 year cool spell, and they had shifted the entire bottom end of the synth market. Several years on, Even Roland is making analog again and there is an absolute renaissance in terms of both classic synth clones and wild new innovations.

Teenage Engineering in contrast went the Apple route of very high quality industrial design, super-accessible user interface, and a high price - and they did very well with their OP-1 synth, which offers a unique combination of synthesis, sequencing/recording, and portability. The Pocket Operators are fine little synths that have opened up a bridge to the lower end of the market and allowed them to introduce several other products in the middle that don't cannibalize sales of their flagship OP-1, but I don't think it's accurate to say they're 'influential'; they answer the question of 'could you implement a decent synth plugin in hardware for cheap' (yes) and come from a company that's small enough to remind people of the DIY/kit synth designers while being established enough to design and ship a product that's complete without doing any actual work or waiting for software stability from a lone programmer. They also sell semi-modular analog synths whose enclosure is built out of cardboard, Ikea-style, but don't require anything like soldering or component selection - in short, delivering the DIY feel without the possibility of messing it up.

They're cool little synths, and TE is an influential company at the top end of its range, but you're the only person I've ever heard suggesting the operators' have had any impact on the market other than slightly expanding the range of stocking stuffer options during gifting season.

>With the Monotrons, Korg made a risky reputational bet on the idea that Pick-and-place assembly technology and tiny modern components could deliver the low costs and satisfying sound that synth nerds expected

>Several years on, Even Roland is making analog again and there is an absolute renaissance in terms of both classic synth clones and wild new innovations.

So much of the contemporary synth market can be traced directly back to that gamble by Korg - the Volcas obviously, the Arturia Brute series, Yamaha's Reface series, Roland and Behringer's desktop modules, the IK Uno, most of Modal's products, perhaps even the modular renaissance.

Korg proved to everyone else that the market was crying out for instruments that harked back to the heritage of classic synths but at an affordable price and in a portable package. They reinvented the hardware synth for the VST generation - customers who didn't want a full-size keyboard and a tour-worthy chassis but did want a tactile experience and authentic sounds, customers who were used to buying instruments in affordable bite-size chunks. The Monotron doesn't look like much, but it started a revolution in the synth business.

Volcas were a proper source of excitement from everyone I knew when they came out.

A drum machine for £110! No way! And a keys synth?! AND A BASS SYNTH?!?

Cheap, versatile and had range to the sounds you could make. Total fundamental change in the synth market.

This does read like a pure PR piece. TE angered most of its fanbase by increasing the price of the OP-1 after it claimed parts became more expensive due to a new supplier.

The OP-1 is the only device I truly love and want to own but never will. I'm still pissed TE sent out an email after an OP-1 sold for something like $10,000+ on eBay saying "don't worry, we're working on making this affordable, stay tuned" then they announced a price hike! For a 10 year old product that's constantly back ordered!

Or you could let go of that anger you're holding on to and buy a used one for $1000 :) https://reverb.com/p/teenage-engineering-op-1

I've tried... also that is still out of my price range. But maybe one day!

Or not, since if something fails you have to ship it to TE and pay them IIRC $125 to look at it. I bought and own an OP-1, that still works great, however, the sequence you execute on boot up to get numbered list of options, such as update firmware, or factory reset cannot be reached. So now I am stuck with the last time I upgraded the firmware, and I can't get it back to the original state, so I can mess around with it again. I don't know, but to spend $800 on a synth, and have to ship it to Sweden, and pay that large a fee to simply look at it is a bit much. I then tried to simply buy a new board, so I could pop it in and be done, but they were sold out! I am sticking with Orca [1] and Extempore [2] for now.

[1] https://github.com/hundredrabbits/Orca [2] https://github.com/digego/extempore

Have you checked out similiar devices? The Critter and Guittari Organelle is a fantastic looking device and half the price, but lacking in some features of the op1.

Theres also the sonicware elz1 but it looks to be focused on being a synth.

There is nothing similar to the op1 unless you are comparing size only.

I suspect TE wanted to outright replace the OP-1 with the OP-z, but the OP-z is not a direct replacement(?) and its initial marketing seemed to me to suggest it is/was going to be a very different device.

For the music hackers out there I'd recommend checking out the Critter and Guitari Organelle M as a more budget (<$500us) and FOSS friendly alternative. The new organelle M has a Raspberry PI compute module under the hood.

Seconding the Organelle as the OP-1 alternative. I haven't got one, but I have definitely considered pulling the trigger.

(The "ultra-budget portable" option is to get a Casio SA and a digital FX pedal. Combine that with a line-in to a DAW setup, and a lo-fi instrumental album is totally within reach.)

What kind (make and model) of digital FX pedal would you recommend? Also any suggestions on DAW software?

The Korg Monologue is a brilliant piece of kit with the demo patches and microtunings done by Aphex Twin (who worked very closely with Takahashi on the development).

If you are interested in what a deep, respectful, and meaningful relationship looks like between artist/engineers, this interview is a must-read: https://warp.net/editorial/richard-d-james-speaks-to-tatsuya...

I can't sing enough praises to Korg Monologue.

Got it for my 6-year-old niece as her first synth. Thought a bit, and got one for myself too.

I like it quite a bit but the tuning has gotten wonky, and very sensitive to cold. I've got low confidence it will be working in ten years time whereas my ~18 year-old Nord 3 is a rock.

The Monologue is $300 new.

I don't think it's fair to compare it to the Nord.

This is true!

The Nord is also all-digital, so it should never have tuning problems.

I've considered making digital audio hardware that "ages' like the analog stuff. Goes out of tune over time, has some capacitors that you need to replace every 10 years, a manual with a trim pot calibration process, etc.

Although a lot of people would shy away from them, Behringer has all sorts of cheap, interesting synths (read: knockoffs) that would be fun for hobbiests for a while.

While I don't trust their stuff to last, a nice modular or SH-101 ripoff for $300 is hard to compete with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JBFoXgtHvE

>Although a lot of people would shy away from them, Behringer has all sorts of cheap, interesting synths (read: knockoffs) that would be fun for hobbiests for a while.

They also threaten to sue journalists for unfavorable reviews and for calling them copycats...

That's always such a weird flex to me, if you make a decent priced knock off why shy away from that label?

I could see unfavorable reviews but their existence now is obvious knockoffs. I'd expect them to invite those comparisons

The Monologue is a delight to play and experiment with. After years of using software synthesizers exclusively, I decided to dip my toe into hardware, and after some research, the Monologue became the clear choice.

At first, its feature set seemed very limiting, coming from the world of software synthesis, but I quickly found the Monologue to be a prime example of constraints breeding creativity. While it’s not about to replace Synapse Antidote in my recording work, it’s still a surprisingly flexible instrument.

Yeah I performed a bunch of live shows in Mojave with just a monotribe I had an op1 but the USB on it snapped off during a show and it killed it. A painfully expensive loss compared to a $60 pocket operator being broken.

Surely that’s fixable with some fine pliers and a soldering kit? Or that caused some other electrical components to fail?

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Teenage+Engineering+OP-1+Connec...

You don't need to solder, the connectors are on a user-replaceable daughter board.

Got any recordings? Always nice to see Monotribe in action.

> This reads like a promo piece for Teenage Engineering.

Yeah. As an electronic music hobbiest, this has a really odd feel to it. TE's stuff is really not all that innovative and while it has its niche isn't really blowing the doors off of anything. I've never personally liked their stuff - it seems so rigid and lifeless.

The Monotron + Monodelay were, admittedly, toys, but still very fun to play with and definitely ushered in a modern age of small, cheap fun synths.

You can buy your way into the NY Times with a high priced PR firm.

What would you recommend to buy instead?

Korg Volcas. Arturia also has some fairly affordable analog synths like the Microbrute. It doesn't have any presets, so you have to figure out how to create sounds on your own and the manual that comes with it is great in explaining oscillators, filters, etc.

Had the Microbrute, volca beats/keys/bass. All of them sounded awesome. The only problem is you couldn't really make songs (with distinct parts) without an additional controller (a squarp pyramid would have been cool. ) and the whole point was to not have to use a computer.

If I did it again a I'd probably go with an octatrack or mpc live or something where I could do more in a single box.

Just fyi the mpc live is an absolutely drag without the mpc software and a computer.

It is a toy. A fun toy, but I've never walked into a studio and seen a producer producing actual tracks on it. Serum + a decent keyboard is the basic setup

Serum is an absolute marvel. I'm amazed a super small team of people managed to put that all together.

I would also love if more software companies adopted its sales model. I "bought" it on a rent-to-own basis from Splice. $10/month for 20 months and then I owned it fully. No subscription, no payments in perpetuity.

Euhm... Omnisphere?

Serum. Omnisphere is for ad spots.

I don't think VSTs are a fair comparison to hardware synths. They may be used a lot in the studio but there's a very different niche for real synths and the gap is closing in the opposite direction lately.

It used to be you had a handful of audio units to emulate specific hardware synths. Now hardware is getting flexible enough to handle a lot of different flavors.

Can anyone recommend a good synth that will be fun to play with but not too confusing for 3–5 year old kids? (With adult helpers who have some basic piano experience but don’t know much about synths.)

I bought one of these for my kids - https://blipblox.com/

No keyboard but it’s a blast.

Just jump on CL or your local equivalent and grab something < $100. Its not like your 5yo is going to appreciate the difference much. They'll pick up whatever you throw at them.

The Playtime Audio Blipblox might fit the bill. It's a proper synth, but it's built like a Fisher Price toy.

https://blipblox.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s98te0b4bo

From a more music-oriented perspective, I might suggest the Casio SA-77 - it's a whole bunch of fun for $50.

https://www.amazon.com/Casio-SA76-mini-Sized-Tones/dp/B00Q83...

Blipblox is such a disappointment (we have one). Worth $80 not $179. Totally agree sa77 is the way to go.

What was disappointing about it? Can’t make enough sounds? Hard for experts to control? Too confusing for kids? Too fragile? ...

Does it get any more interesting if you hook it up to an external midi input like a keyboard or sequencer?

The Casio SA77 doesn’t seem to have any Midi out, so it couldn’t e.g. be combined with the blipblox.

This is a big hit in my household, and also has light-up keys so I can learn the songs my kid likes and play them on the big synths. Likewise, it takes a lot of physical abuse (getting dropped, a lot) and is fine. https://www.amazon.com/VTech-Record-and-Learn-KidiStudio/dp/...

The human voice is one of the most amazing analog synths. Let them learn to speak and sing before dropping what's fundamentally mathematical on them. A keyboard with presents will do just fine once the motor control is good enough and the hands big enough, perhaps. A set of pots and spoons makes for a fun drum kit, too, by the way. You are primarily concerned about creativity, isn't it?

>This reads like a promo piece for Teenage Engineering. The credit for the mini-synth revolution really belongs to Tatsuya Takahashi, the designer of Korg's groundbreaking Volca instruments.

And neither TE or Korg has "won over kids and professionals".

They just built some cool products and made decent sales. No groundbreaking phenomenon in either.

The DX7 for example changed the whole industry. Volca's and TE not so much...

I imagine for the generation brought up on an infinite supply of cracked VST waReZ getting ahold of a physical piece of gear, and being forced to focus on a single piece of kit with limitations, is a revelation. Volcas have the right price point to make that happen and the right balance of features/limitations to make it interesting.

While I have never used one, I am such a huge fan of this one particular band Buerak that I had to find out how their beats were made and it was Korg Volca. Buerak is just a guitarist and a bassist, their 'drummer' is the Volca Beats and I think it's also the secret sauce. Many late-soviet bands were into New Wave and made use of synths/drum machines, Buerak - whether they claim this as an influence or not - is clearly influenced by these bands (most famous would be Kino), but the Volca sound is just so much more dynamic - and it is accessible. It's pretty cool that these guys, who ostensibly do not have a lot of money (from kind of a B-rate city in Russia), were able to make such dope music.

So awesome, thanks

Love my Volca drums. Didn't realize how many more Volca models there are! When I got it there were only 3 or 4. So tempted to buy a couple more!

I think you're missing the point of what Teenage Engineering is trying to do. For as simple as the Korg Vulca series is, it's still an synthesizer first. You need to have some familiarity with electronic instruments to understand the controls of the Monotron that you mention:

  Pitch 
  Rate 
  Int. 
  Cutoff Peak

Compare that to the controls on the Pocket Operator:

  Sound
  Pattern
  BPM
  FX
  Play 
  Write

If you were handed one of these with no experience making music, which one would you be more likely to get started with? Heck, the Pocket Operator even has cute animations that go with your beats!

I have tremendous respect for Korg, but I think Teenage Engineering is prioritizing fun and accessibility in a way that I haven't seen in my 30 years of making music. This may be a fluff PR piece, but I think they deserve a ton of credit for making something as intimidating as electronic instruments so downright fun and adorable.

If you play with a Monotron, you very quickly learn what those five knobs do. You might not understand on an intellectual level what terms like "LFO rate" and "VCF cutoff" mean, but you develop an intuitive understanding of what they do to the sound. If you then go out and buy a Volca Keys or a Minilogue or pretty much any subtractive synthesiser, you already know how to use several of the most important controls.

If you play with a Pocket Operator, you don't learn very much of anything except how to use that particular Pocket Operator; the interface is too idiosyncratic, the details of the synth engine too effectively concealed.

>If you play with a Pocket Operator, you don't learn very much of anything except how to use that particular Pocket Operator; the interface is too idiosyncratic, the details of the synth engine too effectively concealed.

For me, that's the fun part. I like traditional subtractive synthesis, too, but there are many ways to implement synthesizers, and there's no reason they all have to follow the same standards.

> I think you're missing the point of what Teenage Engineering is trying to do.

I think you're missing the parent's point that this is primarily a marketing piece for a company.

> prioritizing fun

I guess that explains the Rick and Morty sampler they were promoting on YouTube recently

All it takes with the KORG is for one to play. All else follows fairly naturally. And there is a bonus! KORG does introduce one technically, and correctly with the words and concepts of record. That KORG experience adds up. People who explored their fun toys, who happen to encounter a bigger device will find things familiar.

These devices are cool, don't get me wrong, but the people talking KORG up as being early leaders here have a very solid case.

This is a great follow on, and a bit different approach. Fine.

To me, anything in this direction is awesome. Sound is fun. Music is fun. Play! (We probably live longer when we do.)

There’s no arguing it - Korg did the mini-synth thing before Teenage Engineering. Actually, Korg, Roland, Moog and Waldorf (among others) all did it before Teenage Engineering.

As a musician and synth lover, I don’t know anyone who uses the TE gear as a serious musical equipment. They’re widely considered to be in the toy or novelty realm, except the OP-1, which is saved by being absurdly expensive for what it is.

What are your thoughts on elektron machines?

Don’t know about the poster above, but I have two so far (Analog 4 and Analog Heat) and am planning on acquiring more. They are a blast!

That's rad! Currently getting my ass kicked by a newly acquired octatrack :)

I don’t own one, but they seem to be loved in the synthesis/sampler circles.

Haha, “changing electronic music” is a BIT of a stretch here, NYT. These are definitely fun toys, but if anything these are just entry points into analog synthesis.

Eurorack modules, and the massive DIY community around them are changing music. Ableton live is changing music. Behringer making super cheap, high quality synth modules is changing music.

Teenage engineering does make some really cool stuff though. Now get on making more OP-1s please!!

Was about to say the same thing. TE makes great products, but those had barely any impact on the music production world.

The quality of DAWs, the availability of great free VSTs, endless YouTube tutorials and tons of avenues for sharing one's work is what created the current environment of hyper productivity.

>, but if anything these are just entry points into analog synthesis.

I just saw several demos of this Pocket Operator on Youtube and what I saw was more of a sampler than an analog synthesizer.

Samplers are more about sound clips manipulation. Analog synths would be more about waveform generators, sine/sawtooth/square, oscillators, envelopes, etc.

E.g. Pocket Operators makes it easy to record some percussive sounds. It auto-analyzes the input for transients and chops them up at boundaries. It instantly maps multiple pitch-shifted versions of those sounds to the buttons. Users then have a quick DIY drum machine that triggers custom sounds.

If these devices can also do traditional analog synthesis, none the Youtubers I browsed demonstrated that capability.

EDIT based on replies: Yes, I now see that searching youtube for specific devices such as "PO-14 Sub" or "PO-16 factory" will show the demos that manipulate synth sounds. Searching only for generic "pocket operator" gets you the sampler demos.

Some are analog, a couple do sampling or simple VST controlled sounds.

None are analog. They make make analog-style subtractive synth sounds, but all the PO’s are completely digital devices.

Every model of Pocket Operator has totally different capabilities. Some can sample, some are synthesizers, sequencers, drum machines, etc.

"Pocket operator" is just the size of the device they're making. There are lots of them from samplers (like you're seeing) to little synthesizers: https://teenage.engineering/products/po#features

Regardless, these are driving the concept of small, packagable audio devices, which eventually leads to modular synthesizers.

Stupid question, but what is the advantage of having this as a hardware device instead of an iPad/Phone App?

They look cooler and have actual buttons and knobs?

Marx and Mumford may approve of this approach. The batteries are cheaper.

They fit a little easier into certain audio chains too. The POs have an in and out audio jack and use them to synchronize with a lot of other small instruments so they all play at the same tempo and can start and stop all at once.

I'm not sure if a generic phone's DA converter can match the signal quality of a specialized circuit.

The Pocket Operators are just a generic DAC+amp chip, the Cirrus CS42L52. The DAC is driven by a 48MHz MCU with just 32K of RAM. If it were purely a question of technical / hardware capabilities it would all fit into an app ten times over.

http://hackingthepo.weebly.com/ has a terrifically detailed teardown of a PO-16. Or SiLabs (the MCU's manufacturer) did a marketing video / interview with one of the Pocket Operator's designers about the hardware design: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjrOnlMkJHU

Most importantly: having real physical controls (buttons, knobs, etc) makes a huge difference. Tapping fingers on a hard glass surface just isn't the same.

Also, the joy of a single-purpose device which makes it easier to get deeply into it. Also means no notifications or other distractions.

Besides, isn't it also a stretch to compare the sales (in number of pieces)?

Korg M1 (in 1988) US$ 2,166:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korg_M1

Pocket Operator US$ 60 (today)

I was thinking that as I read it. Korg volcas would have been a much better comparison.

That made me angry too. By a similar rationale, vintage Moog, SC, ARP etc. are insignificant compared to non-programmable Casios of the 80s.

Comparing instrument sales numbers at all for influencing music is crap. It just takes one instrument to make a great recording that changes things.

The famous 808 and 909 drum machines? Only 12,000 and 10,000 units ever made respectively. But I don't see song titles referencing the pocket operator :P

The TB-303 was a commercial failure at acting as a bass guitar synthesizer. Then years later Phuture cranked that resonance knob and created acid house.

I mean, that knob was like, right there all along

;-)

If teenagers listen less commercial electronic music and making it by themselves that is a change for a good direction.

New entrypoints are a change; they're just a change that takes a while to develop fully. More people get into electronic music who otherwise mightn't've, and they bring their perspectives with them.

Not sure about that. If it's introducing a whole bunch of people to music production who would otherwise find it too intimidating or expensive to get started, that seems like it's changing it. Perhaps in a different way than some of the other stuff you're citing.

>If it's introducing a whole bunch of people to music production who would otherwise find it too intimidating or expensive

Yeah, that's what Ableton Live / FL studio / etc have been doing for decades.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Pocket Operator, but using a drum machine in a DAW or even a cell phone app is far easier. Just a bit less fun.

I'd say Teenage Engineering was never aimed at beginners. If you are just starting up in the synth world, Korg Monologue is a fantastic piece of equipment.

Hm, honestly, Being into analog synthesis is one thing, and making music is another. That has always been a thing I hear, fun toys are not meant for serious music. I believe you can use anything to create music. I own two of these pocket operators and I already create music with them. If you can sample sounds from anywhere, why would these devices just be toys?. I don't see them as that, unless you're an analog synthesis person that is looking to patch like crazy, which is another story.

It's akin to a fidget spinner if you ask me, barely worth 60$ itself.

I've been making music for 20 years and this looks like a glorified (though pretty basic) calculator modified to play notes. Real meaningful music compositions can't be created with it, and I doubt it's going to replace keyboards in studios. Just imagine a studio engineer hooking that tiny POC up to a professional mixing desk for a few bleeps?... :/

If anything is evolving in terms of creating grammy award level music it's probably going to be software on laptops and iPads first.

I'm still waiting for DJ culture to change 8 years after this video was made - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPZaZndMOzw

Not many impressive things have come to the music world since VST (software) synths, beatport, and Serato began to rise (Serato is still terrible BTW), but the music industry needs a lot more innovation injected into it.

This device doesn't have to do it all right?, it does actually give inspiration to people to create different sounds to complement a larger setup, or not, I have seen people make great meaningful music with no expensive equipment at all. Also, very important, making electronic music does not imply it's part of a DJ Culture. It can be, but not necessarily.

> I'm still waiting for DJ culture to change 8 years after this video was made - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPZaZndMOzw

Dude, I was using Virtual DJ (which became AtomixMP3, and then Atomix Virtual DJ) literally 20 years ago. Got grandfathered into an amazing license that gives me free upgrades for life...

There's not really much new since then. Oh, sure, more effect plugins (gimmicks), better sound quality and stretching, better looping, but overall it's the same damn thing with slight improvements now and again. The problem is not the tools, or even necessarily the interface; the problem is thinking that DJ culture is going to "change".

See, you've got your technically talented DJs, and you've got your just-hit-play-and-dance DJs, and ultimately 99% of the people in the crowd cannot tell the difference. Success for the DJ themselves is based on networking and promotion, not the actual music; trendsetting / tastemaking is largely independent of what's actually being produced. Otherwise, would such bland music _still_ be their stock in trade? People want to dance, give them what they want.

Hoping for better in this industry is kinda pointless.

Another way to think about it is that the contemporary dance sound is determined by whatever the hot gear is, and not by the artists using it(because they are disposable figureheads).

And the gear market itself, well, it's also looking out for number one here. Most of what one needs for any traditional music style - and hence, caters to all the session players that provide the real technical skills - is covered by the big manufacturers with a workstation keyboard or equivalent multi-gigabyte sample library. The remainder has to exist on being a "cool toy", and there are a lot of ways to be a cool toy, but most of them involve providing a lot of presets so that DJs that do not know what a "major chord" or a "filter cutoff" is can still sound like heroes. Alternately, the cool toy can replicate a grody 40-year-old analog signal path so that anyone who lusts after yesteryear's gear can have the same sound without the space or costs involved in having the real equipment.

Among those three markets, space for defining really new sounds and styles in the form of a product is limited, but it does keep happening year-over-year.

Don't forget Elektron.

Gonna take this opportunity to plug an open source project I've been following for a bit: https://github.com/topisani/OTTO. Essentially, they are trying to create an open version of Teenage Engineering's OP-1.

There is also the Organelle from Critter And Guitari which runs PureData on arch Linux on the raspberry pi. It is also a synth/sampler (though sequencer-based instead of "tape") with a similar form factor to the OP-1.

There is also the Bela cape for the beaglebone which, along with a special os for the beaglebone, gives you a very low-latency platform for synthesis, programmable with Supercollider or puredata, and lots of analog and digital io.

There's a really cool project for the Organelle called Orac[1] that turns it into a super cool modular synthesizer. It's also available for Raspberry Pi and Bela Salt

[1] https://github.com/TheTechnobear/Orac

Thank you! Many times I have thought through how I could approach something like this. The actual tech behind the OP-1 isn't complicated, they just came up with an awesome form factor and UX. I'm absolutely gonna try getting involved in this project, appreciate you sharing.

Whoa, this is awesome! Thanks for linking it.

I started working on my own mini synth with Teensy and the Teensy audio shield, however this seems like a great project to pivot to. Definitely plan on reaching out to the team and seeing if there is any way to help!

I bought the PO-35 Speak which has two mono tracks for a vocoder-based synth and a drum synth. The OP-1 originally piqued my interest but I wanted to test the waters of electronic instruments before jumping (only had guitar and piano experience before). At first glance it appears very limited and is often dismissed as such, but as I understood it better I found it had impressive depth and capability for making tracks. The true power is really the design, the entire time spent on the learning curve is fun, from out-of-the-box to building patterns and full tracks is a rewarding experience. There were times I thought I had hit its limitations and was disappointed to learn I couldn't do something I wanted to, only later to learn there in fact was - my initial approach was just wrong. The device almost has a game-like reward for discovering it's features.

That said the thing died 6 months in and the warranty process took about 3 months. In the mean time the OP-1 had its notorious production/price shenanigans climbing to $1300 from $800 so I picked up a Deluge instead. The OP-Z also looked interesting but I don't think I'll give TE any more money and certainly not for that something that I couldn't part with for months at time.

For what it's worth I have an OP-1, bought it 1-2 years ago when it was £800 - and I thought it was expensive then!

Anyway, my opinion will not be useful comparatively, since it's my first and only piece of electronic music hardware, only other stuff I have is guitars, amps etc. I can tell you it's been very fun, very reliable (only once I froze it when using a combination of a lot of effects at once with settings I imagine probably took up too much memory), battery lasts for ever (due to CPU type etc), it has a lot of depth, I still haven't figured out how to use absolutely everything, features are very discoverable and learning curve is pretty linear. Some of it is "programmy" as you describe for the POs, but it's also plenty intuitive and direct with the built in keyboard, which I appreciate because my musical background is mostly instrumental.

The main reason I got it is for the very thing that makes it unique, it's tiny, all in one, it's got almost everything you need and is fun - I know it's not the best value for money or the best audio or best effects etc etc, but I don't want to make music on my computer, and I don't want to start out with loads of independent devices to manage and wire together... I appreciated the idea of something I could grab and play with to encourage me to play with electronic music more, and it total achieves that.

The only thing I feel like I miss sometimes (and this is considering I have never owned any other electronic music hardware), is more keys, for the form factor I can't argue, but I think the next thing I would buy is a midi keyboard, I've tried programming longer pieces but it never fits in the sequencer.

[edit]

My single gripe in out of all the design/quality is key debouncing (it doesn't have velocity keys), which doesn't seem to catch enough... sometimes I can exploit it to effect, but most of the time I don't want it - it's occasional, like maybe 1/50 if i'm not being very careful and just hammering rather than pressing. I should probably try updating the software though as this may have been improved. I doens't bother me massively though, like I said it's the only thing.

Oh yeah don't get me wrong, I think it's a great piece of gear. I probably would have gone with it over the Deluge if not for the price hike.

I have a pretty similar approach in that I wanted a sort of all-in-one portable sketchpad mainly so I can detach from the computer painlessly and avoid the device daisy-chain you described. I think the OP-1 basically nails this use case and the design reflects that. The Deluge has a more Swiss army knife approach with its focus on providing a variety of functionality rather than a streamlined design, but both are great if you don't want the kitchen sink of specialized devices and can live with the performance sacrifice. They are coming out with live looping in the next release so it will be a very powerful companion to my guitar. I'm really looking forward to it.

How do you find Deluge? Thinking about buying it as a maxi-version of Circuit when I make more space in my studio (Octatrack, Maschine & Circuit as groove boxes/sequencers/samplers already there).

I like it quite it a lot. I don't have a lot to compare it to, but beefed up Circuit is a good way to describe it. Its sequencer, especially the song and arrangement modes, are powerful and probably the area it excels the most. My main gripe is that the sound can lack punch in the low end, making bass/sub-bass difficult and drums less satisfying. But pretty much everything else I'm happy with and love the workflow and form factor.

Korg put out cartridge for the Nintendo DS called the Korg DS-10 that emulated the MS-10. Pretty amazing what you could do with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wQgwqwU8U4

Korg gadget on the switch is a lot nicer to use in my opinion. Such a cool music toy.

I bought the PO-33 thinking it would be a fun musical toy I could occasionally play with. To be honest, I was disappointed with how much repetitive labor was needed to do even the simplest things on it. Something about it just did not entertain my programmer-brain. I could visualize each step needed to make a fun track, and then decided it would not be worth the time. I mostly spent time imagining how much easier and more fun it could be.

I did exactly the same thing with my PO-33!

I hit this wall, but what I've decided is that it makes a fun adjunct instrument to play in real-time; using the sequencer is basically something to occupy time on transit or whatever but not a productive music-making idea. Just use it to collect fun samples over the course of your day and then mix them into other things in your DAW of choice.

Novation Circuit is way more flexible/fun than TE/Volca, although 5x more expensive. I'd recommend people to start with that one, it can be easily plugged into a pro studio later, it's perfect for traveling/commuting and allows "happy accidents" for finding cool riffs to happen faster.

I heard that you have to load all your synths on with a computer and can't built them on the device itself like you can on the op-1

Yeah, though it's quite trivial to upload sample sets or tweak sounds in an editor (it uses Nova engine, similar to Ultranova/Mininova). Moreover, the knobs on the top allow some advanced tuning anyway, so even dull stock sounds can be made pretty cool. It's powered by 6 AAA batteries as well and has a speaker, so it's a pretty cool instrument for vacations and travel.

It uses WebMIDI, I think, so you don't have to install anything on your computer or phone to edit or update patches.

Yeah but you can't come up with a new sound on the go. One of the benefits of the op-1 is you can build an entire song on it.

Agreed; the point was simply that needing a second computer in this case isn't as bad as it sounds.

You load synth presets using a computer app which seems to be some sort of electron nonsense. It looks pretty bad.

There's also an iOS app called MIDISynthControl which can be used to edit the presets when connected to the Circuit over USB.

dumb question, perhaps someone will take mercy on me:

i've wanted to learn to make electronic music for.. ever. and i've never really done it.

i have a mac. and an iPad. and an iPhone. and an M-Audio MIDI controller.

what's a good recipe -- hardware and software -- to build the base skills & knowledge to make decent ambient/chill tracks? i'm hoping someone can send me in the right direction..

thanks in advance.

Not a dumb question at all. Electronic music can be a lot of fun to make.

The fact you have a Mac, and a MIDI controller is a great start. The next steps would be choosing your DAW and then starting to experiment with the many different features.

Its a little dated, but here is a good link on picking a DAW: https://www.rrfedu.com/blog/2016/09/19/pro-tools-vs-logic-vs.... I personally use Logic as I got it on sale and it works well with the touchbar (a miracle I know).

Next, you just need to experiment. Watch tutorials, mess around with the instruments, and just have fun!

Eventually, you can expand your software/hardware collection. However you should just need your Mac, MIDI Controller, and DAW to start.

Propellerheads Reason software if you wanna spend some money. Slightly older versions of Traktion from Native Instruments are free and open source (up to v7 I think) if you just want to use the computer for recording & plugins. Otherwise use your iPad as a MIDI sequencer/tape recorder.

Hardware...Get a Volca DX-7 clone for $150, a Behringer analog synth clone for $300, and a nice reverb/delay pedal. Protip: older and cheap mixers will give you some 'secret sauce' in terms of lightly distorting and compressing your signals. Get Mackie if you like a rough sound, Tascam if you like it a little tinny, Spirit or Allen & Heath if you want warm.

>Get a Volca DX-7 clone for $150

If you want a DX-style synth, I'd highly recommend getting Yamaha Reface DX for about $250 on Reverb.

It's the most underrated synth of all time. The controls on it make FM synthesis fun, and you can change the sound in real time. It's compact, I've brought it with me anywhere from airplanes to deserts. The built-in speakers are good enough to jam with anyone, anywhere. Everyone who's touched it loved it. It's worth its money for the e-piano patch alone. And on-board effects take it to the next level (tell me of another synth at that price point which allows you to chain two Delay FX!).

FM synthesis can be done purely digitally, and Dexed VST will do a good job replicating DX-7. Reface DX offers a compelling reason to buy a hardware FM synth: it's an instrument that in the long-term will help you transition into live performance, and in the short term will incentivize you to play with it, and learn FM.

Oh, and it's a great 3-octave mini-keys MIDI controller too.

Yamaha Reface DX

Cute as it is I'll take the extra knobs and the motion sequencing on the Volca any day of the week. It's a very interesting contrast to Yamaha's modal UI approach (where you can easily switch between parameter sets but have only two soft parameters available at any given time).

Four soft parameters :)

Well, either the same parm on all 4 operators for some parms, or envelope rate xor level settings for a single operator, but not arbitrary parms. But it is indeed 4 sliders, and not just 2 or 1.

Interestingly Yamaha documents the CC codes for the Reface DX, so you can use an external controller with knobs such as an Akai to go wild with altering the patch while you play.

I’ve only done a little bit of this, but here’s a video where the guy is all over it 12 minutes or so in https://youtu.be/Xt-tmIMCxTk

Seconding Reason. The built-in soft synths are incredibly versatile and will train you up so that you will know what you want and how to use it when you buy hardware.

if you have a mac, why not start out with garageBand? It's actually quite capable and it's free!

Honestly, Garageband is much better than people give it credit for. T-Pain still makes a lot of his beats on it. A lot of tutorials can be found for most major DAWs. FWIW, almost all of the producers that I personally follow use Ableton, as well as myself. I really enjoy it. If you're really strapped I can also recommend Bitwig; a lot of the skills and knowledge transfer.

But the theory should transfer to any major DAW and you really don't need much else to get started. You barely need any more plug ins than the built-ins

Madlib produced all of his most recent album (Bandana) on an ipad, probably garageband. I definitely hadn't given the software enough credit until learning that.

Grimes’ first album is also all garageband. Great entry point for music making.

I've used Logic most of my life, but Garageband is pretty great these days on iOS/mac. And you can transfer the projects to Logic if you want to take them further.

A couple of niggles (can't set start/end points for loop playback/recording, no midi learn, relatively few keyboard shortcuts) but for a free portable DAW it's superb. Supports a lot of i/o too, I've used interfaces all the way from 2 track IK duo pro to 16 channel Soundtrack desk with it.

Ableton, and maybe a midi controller with 8 knobs that's natively supported and complements your keyboard. Novation Launchcontrol for example which comes with an entry version of Ableton, < 100 bucks.

Ableton is the industry standard for electronic music, the makers have a ambient and dub techno background, and there are a ton of tutorials yo get you started.

The program is still underrated, because essentially it's like system in which you can build your own software effects and instruments (as racks), and use the ones that other DIYers have created. It can replace VST's, you actually don't need any. Ableton packs of sampled instruments can also replace Kontakt from Native Instruments.

Having the 8 knobs on a controller comes in handy because you can "lift" parameters within your racks and map them to a rack macro frontend that consists of 8 knobs, and that's the best way to access the devices and racks within Ableton for sound design. There are also some good controller apps for the iPad like Touchable, and synths that you can integrate (those that support the Ableton Link protocol).

The Lite version (that's bundled with controllers and some iPad apps) and the Intro version are very limited, but enough to get started. Upgrading to the Standard version can be done for $250 or maybe even a bit less if you catch a deal, and that's where the fun starts.

You’ve gotten some pretty solid advice already, and echoing other comments it’s not a dumb question at all.

From a software perspective I’d also recommend Ableton, it strikes a fantastic balance between providing an intuitive workspace and letting the user shape the environment to their preferences.

That said if you want to make music, software/hardware is the smallest part of the process.

For a beginner I’d recommend learning the basics of music theory and synthesis, and then spending a lot of time starting and finishing tracks in a limited environment.

If you enjoy your iPad, I really recommend Auxy. The app gives you just enough freedom to explore your ideas, while being streamlined enough that you won’t waste hours twiddling knobs on effects chains. Plus it can export to Ableton if you want to flesh out your tracks at a later date.

Ableton actually has a great resource for beginners[1], as well as a good resource for the basics of synthesis[2]. If you find you enjoy learning about synths then I’d also recommend the Syntorial iPad app. It’s an exhaustively comprehensive, interactive course on subtractive synthesis. It’s worth it for the ear training alone, imo.

Most importantly, start making bad music. I believe we all have a certain number of bad beats/tracks in us, and the best way to learn is to get them out. You’ll improve way more from churning through your first hundred songs than from setting up the perfect DAW.

Happy noodling.

1.https://learningmusic.ableton.com/ 2.https://learningsynths.ableton.com/

Do you have any recommendations on getting started with Auxy, either Auxy specific or resources for things _like_ Auxy that translate well?

Ableton put together a nice website for just this: https://learningmusic.ableton.com/

can't seem to edit my parent post, but:

THANKS to everyone with suggestions. there's some good ones here... i played piano years ago, so in terms of basic music theory i have some of that. i tend to love researching things like music options and then am too overwhelmed to get around to doing it.

and YES to the suggestion to make bad music. totally down with that suggestion, as it's been a truism for other creative pursuits.

MIDI controller and GarageBand is a good place to start. Or you can buy Logic, it's got a similar interface, but more features and a large sound library and some fun virtual synths.

Get a camera kit to connect the controller to the iPad. Depending on the controller, you may may need a powered usb hub - M-Audio keystation is low power, but Akai Mini needs more than the iPad will put out, for example.

I like the BeatMaker3 program, as it is good as a looper for a backing track, as well as being a host for Audio Units.

Lorentz is a nice analog emulator (similar to Juno 106), KQ Dixie a SysEx compatible DX7 emulator , and bs-16i a soundfont rompler.

Later you can get other instruments and additional effects, but I think those are a good starter kit. Also, the Yamaha home PSR keyboards, even the $200 ones, transfer audio as well as MIDI over USB, so you might look at one of those.

As others have pointed out, learn some music basics, such as what a I IV V vi (or i iv v VI) chord progression is, as well as major vs minor keys / scales / modes and such.

Disclosure: I’m a hobbyist, so don’t take this as career advice :-)

E.g. - https://soundcloud.com/rob-anderson-104336556/sets/cassiopod... - many of the songs have notes on the setup used. (Yeah, not quitting my day job)

Oh. I ignored the desktop OS. Yeah. You will probably have more fun playing if you start out on the iPad first.

Ideas for iOS stuff : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZFPiLpzd4cKOsBS9CIu3xg

Additionally for iOS, Synth One is excellent, and free (open source even). I also really like "Unique" by Sugar Bytes and NLog Synth by TempoRubato.

Interesting seeing this on HN the day after I ordered their OP-1. TE is doing some really neat stuff. I am pretty excited to be able to play around with electronic music composition without being tied to a computer. Doing more with less might help me to not get distracted by all the shiny tools I could load onto my workstation. Also, having a portable unit makes it a lot easier to go out and collect/try new samples.

Teenage Engineering also was a partner on the Playdate handheld game console that as recently announced by Panic.

https://play.date/

As an owner of a TE OP-1 and a more professional Korg Prologue, I can say first hand how awesome these TE devices are. I really want to play with more kinds. The team over at TE does a great job building good interfaces, and making it "fun". I feel like Gene from Bob's Burgers.

That said, I love being able to program my own DSP for my Prologue, and it's 16 voice polyphonic analog sound is just hard to compare that to that of my toy OP-1, even if they are both capable of making music above my pay grade.

Even if the piece reads like a Pocket Operator promo, it still captures a bit of what TE’s products aim for - fun, usable, etc.

That said, I’ve been considering getting an OP-1 for ages but keep hoping someone will come up with a suitable software alternative for iOS - right now there is no shortage of iOS audio software (Synth One is free and amazing on its own right), but I’d love to have an OP-1 style workflow within a single app.

It's remarkable that no one has finished a clone of the OP-1 given people are paying $1300usd for this thing many years after it came out. There is an open source version in development called OTTO

I have had a bunch of synths before, including an Volca. And what TE does is that they have lowered the barrier to entry in making interesting music. They are really fun to jam on. You can just pick up a Pocket Operator and iterate on a song withought much difficulty. They also have depth if you want to tweak or play around with it.

REVERSE ENGINEERING OP-I https://2016.mrmcd.net/fahrplan/system/event_attachments/att...

"...the style of the company’s products — playful, a little rebellious, definitely strange — does indeed evoke the slouchy insouciance of teenagers."

_insouciance_: (noun) lighthearted unconcern; nonchalance

This is off topic, but it's always nice to learn a new word while reading up on tech.

If you like their POs, you'll probably like the OP-Z too. The main difference between the OP-1 & the OP-Z for me is that the OP-Z is a sequencer, as in the OP-1 just records whatever you play. Different workflow for different style, I guess.

Anyone use any elektron equipment?

I can't read this due to paywall. Is it the pocket operator by teenage engineering?

yep

Yes.

Yes nothing I do recently is enabling me to see NY Times content and a lot of NYT stories make the front page.

I wish there was a paywall/geoblocking/whatever-the-next-discriminator-is flag so I could just filter submissions. Or at least to mark it and save the disappointment. It seems more necessary as the web becomes more closed.

curious as a layman who is exploring music maker hardware: what’s the difference between this and a monome? I’m interested in input devices that give you the freedom to both compose and improvise for live shows.

nytimes blocks Firefox Focus.

They block Firefox Private Mode as well. Though it works perfectly fine for me in non-Private Mode (and without ads).

Does this work? https://archive.is/mSAHg

More generally, they block anybody using tools to get around paying for the content. So, [some] ad blockers, pihole, as well as things like firefox focus. It's not specific to firefox focus however.

The next release of Chrome will break the method that NYT and other sites use to detect incognito mode (file access): https://www.blog.google/outreach-initiatives/google-news-ini...

You can do it now by setting the enable-filesystem-in-incognito flag.

They work with noscript

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