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Comment by crazygringo | Hacker News Reader

But language tradition is important here.

People have been calling it a "veggie burger" for decades now.

Saying it can't be a burger is ridiculous -- it's a kind of burger.

But, I fully support packaging requiring word(s) beforehand in an equal-sized font -- "burger" reserved for beef, while "black bean burger" and "veggie burger" and "quinoa burger" are all fine.

What's bizarre is that beef burger makers see this as a threat worth addressing... like, nobody's accidentally buying veggie burgers.

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It's about keeping alternative / status-quo-threatening foods in the "weird" outgroup in consumer minds.

"What type of burger do you want: Beef or bean?" is the opposite of that. But nothing that can't be fixed with some cultural manipulation from up top.

> What's bizarre is that beef burger makers see this as a threat worth addressing... like, nobody's accidentally buying veggie burgers.

I think that's exactly what they're worried about, though. There wasn't much chance of confusion before, so it wasn't a big priority. Now that vegetable alternatives like the Impossible "patty" are becoming indistinguishable from beef, they're more concerned. If McDonald's or some other giant purveyor of beef could switch and save money, they would. They're rightly worried about a loss of market as the meat alternatives get better at mocking the real thing.

People keep saying "indistinguishable from beef" but oh boy... I literally don't know what burgers these people have been trying.

I've tried them all, including the newest versions, and they're still not even close. They're fine, but still completely different... kind of like how soy milk is fine but certainly doesn't taste anything like cow milk. And I'm certainly not a supertaster or anything...

I'm personally of the opinion we'll have self-driving cars long before we come up with a non-meat burger that is actually as satisfying, in the same ways, as a beef one.

I agree, it's not that Impossible is anywhere near a good real hamburger, but when it comes to fast food, the bar is low. With all the low-grade beef, fillers, and flavor science involved, I bet I couldn't tell the difference in, say, a White Castle burger or a Taco Bell burrito. They might not be there yet, but they're damn close. That's the market the industry is rightfully concerned with.

I think people underestimate the quality of meat in fast food.

At least for McD's, for example, it's 100% beef and salt, no fillers or flavor science needed, just browning reactions from a hot griddle. The quality bar is actually pretty high for, say, a quarter pounder, and the flavor of the sandwich is predominantly the beef itself -- flavors like American cheese, raw onion, ketchup and bread are quite weak in comparison.

Taco Bell is a little different -- it's about 10% seasoning and 90% beef because that's what taco meat is supposed to be, but again the browned beef is the primary flavor component of the taco -- no amount of cumin will make up for it.

I'm not sure where people get the idea that fast food beef is somehow tasteless, low-quality, or engineered in any way that, say, home hamburgers aren't. It seems like it's just this urban myth that perpetuates itself because it's fun to believe.

The truly amusing part is that they think spending money on labeling issues will do anything to stop it

Right now they're being sold as an expensive novelty, but the producers are being open that their business plan is undercut meat on price and move downmarket.

That's a direct threat. Meat producers are probably imagining something like 10% beef / 90% artificial meat filler burgers being the norm for cheap ground beef.

It should be cheaper to produce plants than to raise a cow.

So it won't be long before plant-based protein is cheaper than beef. It's not "undercutting" so much as the fact it's cheaper to produce.

And has an inverse effect on global warming.

Ironically, the term "hamburger" might lead someone who doesn't know its origin to expect it's made with ham.

Or that it was grown and bottled in the Hamburg region of France

haha why is this downvoted??

Do you mean the German city?

I think the joke in the parent was in making an overly enthusiastic comparison to Champagne.

> What's bizarre is that beef burger makers see this as a threat worth addressing... like, nobody's accidentally buying veggie burgers.

If they force the sellers of veggie burgers to come up with, and popularize, another term, they cost those guys a little money. There's no principle involved here.

I guarantee this is more cultural signaling than a threat the beef industry sees as real.

I disagree, I think the threat is very real. Soon every burger chain will be offering a non-meat burger. Burger King already does.

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