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Comment by bongo662 | Hacker News Reader

I went to an SEC school and did the whole fraternity thing during college, which involved drinking to excess way to much fueled by the fact that living in a fraternity house with 45 other guys who also wanted to drink that much as well as the rampant drug use.

It definitly had a negative impact on my health, grades, and focus on school work and im glad that post college ive cut back to 1 night of moderate drinking with friends on the weekend however the habits picked up in college still plague a good amount of my friends from college and Im worried about their longevity.

Its a particuarly hard issue to solve even moreso in a alcohol fueled envirionment like a frat where the freshmen joining look up to the sophmores,juniors and seniors who all have this same binge drinking mentality and the cycle continues.

Maybe the normalisation of alcohol at a younger age would help reduce it as it wouldnt seem like such a forbidden fruit.

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My anecdote: undergrad in Montreal, so the drinking age was 18. The first semester of first year involved quite a bit of heavy binge drinking, but by the time finals came around, I'd say that most of us (even the new drinkers) had acclimated and were drinking at a slightly more reasonable level. I have a hunch that being able to drink legally in highly social settings (the common room, clubs, bars, etc) is massively helpful in establishing healthy(er) drinking norms.

There isn't nearly as large of a frat/'Greek Life' culture in Canadian universities as in American ones, as far as I can tell. This is despite the fact that Canada and the US have very similar university systems, with students often crossing the country for school (unlike in Europe). I suspect that part of the reason for this frat disparity is that there's not so much appeal for frat parties when you can legally buy your own booze or go out to a bar/club without needing a fake ID.

Of course, alcoholism is a major problem in Canada as in the US.

There is definitely a heavy frat culture here in NL, where the drinking age is 18 (and used to be 16 until recently), so I don't think that reasoning holds.

Alcohol is normalized from a young age in the UK, yet it's abused by adults more heavily than here. I don't think that's a panacea.

The UK is interesting because there's a culture of drinking. So much of typical UK social life revolves around going "down pub". One place I worked we'd go to the pub for lunch every Friday and have 1-2 pints. I'm not sure why this is.

Is that really your environment though? I can’t really imagine myself just falling into that culture by accident. I have to imagine you intended to seek it out, no? Not intending any accusations here.

Youre correct its definitly something I sought out and its something you can always drop out of too so I actively chose to stay involved as does everyone else in the organization

> Maybe the normalisation of alcohol at a younger age would help reduce it as it wouldnt seem like such a forbidden fruit.

Yeah. I don't believe that for a second. Much more interesting is how well you fare against peer pressure, how much of a social animal you aim to be, and whether your family was doing it.

If we could argue like that I would just argue the exact opposite based on my experience. The forbidden fruit we seem to have in common. The distinguishing factor here seems to be that you were in a toxic environment and I was busy pestering people on IRC.

There was a lot more porn available in that environment, so that's my burden to bear.

Let's at least stop pretending that if there were no limits on anything in the world, everything would be great and amazing.

Anecdote but by 12 I had a favorite wine category and by 16 a favorite beer. Growing up, my dad drank every day with dinner, and the value of taste and enjoyment was what I learned out of wine & beer, along with the knowledge that too much starts to impair me. But this discovery was well before my driving days and within my own family, it wasn't something I had to covet, hide then binge on in secrecy, without social feedback.

I was not quite 18 when I first got really drunk… at a relative's wedding. I learned that impaired senses wasn't something I enjoyed and only got drunk one other time in my life. Also social feedback has kept that particular event alive in the family.

But my drinking style isn't condusive to getting drunk, as I savor my drinks really slowly, and for the most part, with meals.

This is a French perspective, though. I've had a very hard time conveying this idea to people here in the US because it seems ingrained in many people's minds that the only purpose of alcohol is to get drunk, so either you party or you abstain: no middle ground. Things are starting to change a bit, moderate drinking with the goal of savoring is gaining more acceptance and—most importantly—good drinks are appearing but it's a slow process.

I think that the normalization of alcohol at a younger (early college) age would help.

My experience in college is that it's not hard at all to find alcohol, but only in an environment where drinking is the main activity. It's much easier for me to go out and get drunk in a group than get a drink with a meal in the U.S. Having spent time with lower drinking ages, it's much easier to drink without getting drunk.

This is certainly a reflection on how I grew up (especially seeing how my parents treat alcohol), but I think the culture would be better if it was legal to drink earlier.

Anecdotally, I grew up in the UK, where they are very strict regarding underage drinking (18 is the legal age). Worked in a small town in Austria in my early 20s and noticed that kids in the 15 - 18 year age range were generally allowed to drink (at an outdoor pub / concert venue) without too much hassle. They definitely did it more moderately than kids in the same age range in the UK.

Thats true, I thought I always heard binge drinking was a bigger issue in America v Europe where its not as strict. Never looked into the data though so I could be completely wrong

Depends, my parents were always conservative.

Another friend was allowed to do whatever he wanted.

When it was a lot of fun, he stayed. Other times, he went home early.

I stayed till I was allowed too and tried to make it longer also.

It depends on personality also ofc, but when I was a student. It was new to me. Ofc, I stayed a hell of a lot longer than my friend the first year consistently.

Corporations won't survive then.

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