Comment by kwhitefoot | Hacker News Reader

Comment by kwhitefoot | Hacker News Reader

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The general idea of using the school to do more than teach children is something that I have wondered about since I was a child (I'm 63).

It seems such a shame for all those facilities to stand idle all summer, all weekend, all night.

As the article shows there are people who need the basic education that a primary school can give but surely we should go further still and offer everyone in society the chance to go 'back' to school and learn whatever they want. Perhaps to learn some of the things that they thought were dull or inappropriate when they were there the first time around. Men could learn to cook and sew, women could learn to maintain their car or bicycle, Lots of people could benefit from a better grasp of simple mathematics and statistics.

Yes, I know that evening classes and further education exist but they are far from universally available and except for classes in demand for craft training (mechanics, electricians, etc.) depend all too much on volunteer effort by teachers or even untrained enthusiats who are already overworked orunderqualified.

And lastly, why am I the only one commenting here? Surely life long education should be dear to the heart of all HNers? And worth a comment or two.

I've never really thought much about using schools to teach adults. I love the idea, although in the United States there'd likely be a lot of pushback from people who oppose more subsidized college.

But aside from all of that, I think that the expansion of services that libraries provide would be an excellent way to go about this - many libraries are already getting 3D printers and all sorts of tools, and are consistently adding new programs. And I doubt many people oppose supporting local libraries. Plus, libraries are in some ways better equipped to train people on how to learn on their own (not that they shouldn't also have teachers, but self teaching is definitely a great skill for life long education)

Also, the idea of having many ages all together is really nice - something that doesn't even happen much in colleges. It's the sort of thing that helps foster community across generations and helps give people an understanding of more perspectives. Although luckily that kind of interaction can happen a lot across the internet.

> And I doubt many people oppose supporting local libraries.

Previous threads on HN (and many other fora) about local libraries in the US, bring out a lot of people who complain about local libraries. They say that libraries smell bad because homeless people sit there all day (and supposedly view pornography on the provided computers, and use drugs in the bathroom). They say that libraries are a waste of taxpayer money now that we have the internet and they should be shut down. I cannot claim to have visited every community in the USA, but it seems to me that a lot of people oppose supporting local libraries.

I used to work for NYPL years back. Apparently there are also gangs having sex (eg, gang initiation) at some branches -- this topic was actually covered during my orientation.

I agree many branches are essentially day-time shelters for homeless (sure, they smell really bad) and drug addicts.

Not sure about "shutting them down," but they try to justify their existence even in the age of the internet and wireless communication by claiming that they serve various unheeded needs of local community other agencies are unable to provide.

Are they really a waste of taxpayers money? Well, most librarians are unions members and they are not for the most part a drain on NYC finance -- we are talking about NYC where NYPD officers can make $150+K or sky-is-the-limit earnings for MTA contractors. I think the city has much greater issues at its hand, but the library system is far from frugal or efficient, IMO. Some work for the library because they share and believe in the mission and service they provide to community, but I suspect many don't care about that.

If public libraries would serve coffee and get serious about wi-fi, they would make money. Why is there not a Starbucks morticed into every public library?

lots of public libraries have coffee shops inside, though generally not starbucks.

At least in a bunch that I've been in Illinois

From my observations, it seems that the vocal opposition is far outnumbered by the quiet supporters.

My small town library is expanding, not simply for more room for books, but also to make it a nicer space for events and programs open to the community.

The internet situation out here is also pretty bad (I use ubifi), so it's handy for those who are low income to access the internet without using data from their cell phone.

I had forgotten about the people who complain about homeless people (which as an aside I would argue is more of an issue with society than with libraries themselves), but I haven't seen too much of the "we have the internet and they should be shut down" arguments. It seems that those opposed to libraries on this site have likely forgotten the Hacker part of Hacker News.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic#The_hacker_ethics

You're using an outlier library if it has 3-D printers. The average library is more a net cafe with a small amount of books and no "cafe" part. Essentially it's a worse bookstore with worse hours, but free content.

My local library is in a nice building downtown, but it's real amount of books is far less than the books-a-million 20 minutes away, and most of the floor space is dominated by banks of computers. When libraries changed focus from providing access to computers, they kind of lost their mission, because computers are now dirt cheap, yet books are more expensive overall.

Maybe I live in a strange area, but we've always had continuing education offered by the county and various other local government type organizations. They offer everything from languang and reading instruction to welding, pottery, fitness and woodwork at very reasonable prices. We get two or three catalogs in the mail a few weeks before every scheduled session starts. My wife and I are currently taking the second session of an art program and take regular fitness classes every week.

The local library also offers a large number of classes in various subjects for various ages.

Classes use a mix of facilities, but I've spent quite a few evenings crammed into an elementary school desk.

I've moved around a bit in my state and have always had this kind of offering available, even in quite rural areas. Is this not the norm?

If there was demand for the services ( cooking, bike maintenance, simple math ), I'm sure schools would offer them. The point is who is going to pay to keep these schools open and pay the salaries of the teachers if people aren't willing to pay for these services?

Besides, with the internet, learning to cook, maintain bike or even basic math is available to most people. It's how I learned to cook.

And finally, the Hacker ethos is fairly anti-"schooling". Most hackers view school as indoctrination centers rather than centers of education. The idea of a "hacker" is being a curious free-thinker who tinkers and tries to learn things on their own. Maybe we should give everyone access to the internet so that they can seek the knowledge they want?

Honestly if I could go back and take highschool trigonometry classes again I would. I learned enough that I can use a trig calculator to find what I need, but I'd love to go back and really learn the principles and the why. I had no interest in it back then, it just took me an extra decade and a half to get interested.

I suppose some community colleges might have something like that. I know there are some that offer language classes on 10 week cycles with no other enrollment or commitment required beyond a small fee.

With the rapid pace of technological advancement, I think adult education will become increasingly important as labor needs evolve, although online courses are probably a better route for adults. Seems like there would be significant logistical and security issues associated with using facilities currently configured for small children (for example, furniture size, possible overlap of adult/child presence).

Atleast here in Sweden (Stockholm, big city) schools are usually used on evenings (languages courses for adults, such things) and on weekends.

Fwiw there's numerous public schools in my city that run free programs at night and in the summer for "continuing education."

I think it is mostly a funding issue. In Sweden there is municipal adult education. About 4% of the population ages 20 to 64 attended last year, with the median age (at least previously) being around 30. It is however tuition free and grants you a government student loan for living costs. Of course soon enough that loan might not actually cover rent.

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