Comment by ChuckMcM | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ChuckMcM | Hacker News Reader

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While I don't recommend this daily hygiene plan, for the doubters on HN there is some research into this which does not conflict with the parent's statements.

According to a variety of authorities, body odor is the result of bacterial interaction with sweat and oil excretions of the body. The medical name for severe body odor is bromhidrosis. But the key is that there is an interaction between the microbiome in the area around your sweat glands, and your sweat that causes the odor.

Anthropologists studying primitive peoples have found many cases of people who do not bathe regularly and yet do not smell either. A group at MIT did some studies with repopulating the microbiome with ammonia consuming bacteria from soil as a way of avoiding body odor without washing. And the folks at the Microbiome project cultivated a bunch of microbiomes from people's arm pits and thighs which also informed this area (although there isn't really a pro-biotic deodorant that I know of yet)

As I understand it, showering and washing isn't getting rid of "odor" it is getting rid of bacteria that is outgassing odor after processing your sweat. You could be odor free without showering with the right bacteria consuming the sweat.

Until we can control the microbiomes at will whe trick is that it's very hard to tell if you are one of the people who won't smell bad if you skip the soap and deodorant, or if you're one of the people who will. Especially if you're single. :)

Personally I've found I don't need a ton of soap, can get by without deodorant if not especially active, and can skip shampoo most days but do need conditioner and aggressive rubbing it in/scalp self-massage to avoid dandruff.

need conditioner and aggressive rubbing it in/scalp self-massage to avoid dandruff.

Curious: Does conditioner help you avoid dandruff? Any explanation as to how it does?

Oops, that was unclear.

The conditioner helps with styling it / keeping it feeling smooth and pliable. Especially since I still shampoo once or twice a week for additional dandruff control, which wipes out some of the natural oils.

The aggressive rubbing is the part that does the daily dandruff control. Seems to exfoliate the dead skin.

Anthropologists studying primitive peoples have found many cases of people who do not bathe regularly and yet do not smell either.

I was homeless for nearly six years. The last couple, I showered about once a month most of the time. No, I did not stink to high heaven.

I actually smelled worse when I had a corporate job and showered twice a day because I was extremely ill. I smelled worse when I was first homeless and showering daily at a women's shelter because I was still ill.

As I gradually got healthier on the street, my hair got less greasy and other things changed. This is why the advice that you just need to get through the first month doesn't necessarily generalize. These changes occurred gradually over the course of several years as my own microbiome, nutritional status and other metrics changed.

https://motherdirt.com/

According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deodorant#Overview) it is more a matter of not having bacteria than of having the right ones. It says that washing and shaving one’s armpits are contributing factors to having bacterial colonies, and, hence, smelly armpits:

”When adult armpits are washed with alkaline pH soap, the skin loses its acid mantle (pH 4.5 - 6), raising the skin pH and disrupting the skin barrier. As many bacteria thrive in this elevated pH environment, this makes the skin susceptible to bacterial colonization. […] Underarm hair wicks the moisture away from the skin and aids in keeping the skin dry enough to prevent or diminish bacterial colonization. The hair is less susceptible to bacterial growth and therefore is ideal for preventing the bacterial odor.”

I think deodorant mostly is an example of capitalism creating demand where none exists.

> I think deodorant mostly is an example of capitalism creating demand where none exists.

That’s the most foolish thing I’ve read in a long time.

When I was growing up, I was a bit stubborn regarding use of soap and deodorant: I pretty much refused to use anything but water to shower, and never used deodorant (or any other topical substance, for that matter).

That approach worked just great, until I hit puberty... Trust me, if you think nobody needs deodorant just as long as you don’t use soap (or some other such nonsense), I am the living proof of just how extremely far from the truth you are.

Of course, many people out there will never need deodorant (genetics play a large part here, according to some studies I’ve read). There may even be some microbiological technology we can find to cure body odor in alternate ways. But to assume that deodorant is a universally needless product (in favor of not using soap) is incredibly naive, or nearsighted.

I’ll save responding to your random derision of capitalism for another debate.

>That approach worked just great, until I hit puberty... Trust me, if you think nobody needs deodorant just as long as you don’t use soap (or some other such nonsense), I am the living proof of just how extremely far from the truth you are.

oh, middle school... i can certainly attest to your experience.

> Of course, many people out there will never need deodorant

Many? The only ethnicity that does not have that is asians IIRC, they lack a certain gene for body odor. So i think it's really everyone but them.

I always heard that it was deodorant manufacturers that made body odor socially unacceptable, not that they body odor didn't exist before deodorant.

It's not surprising at all that widespread, cheap, effective means to reduce body odor would make it less socially acceptable to have body odor.

There are many unpleasant aspects of being human that we tolerate, because we have no other choice. Through time, technology is created that helps us deal with more and more of these things. That's only natural, and good.

If true, where did sailors get the bad rap about being "smelly foreigners" come from?

never took a bath?

Attempt at preventing them from getting at the ladies I'm town?

Different diets cause foreigners to smell differently and different is often ‘bad’.

I’d guess that diet and genetics play huge roles, and those are two factors which are likely to be different for primitive people’s.

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