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Comment by callumprentice | Hacker News Reader

A well traveled American ex-colleague of mine moved to Copenhagen but left after 6 months. He said he simply couldn't afford to live there on his (Senior) game developer salary and theorized that the reason Danes are so happy is that they have such low expectations.

I really hope that's not true (I'm pretty sure it isn't) as I find the idea of moving and raising my family there very appealing.

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Developer salaries are significantly lower in the whole of Europe than the US, but they’re still extremely well paid positions that’ll give you way over what an average person earns.

Describing it as unaffordable sounds a bit off to me when there are people living comfortably on half what he earned (assuming he wasn’t being massively underpaid).

If he wanted a garage full of Tesla’s in his city centre garage, then yeah, it’s unaffordable.

Yep, understood. I don't know how much he was paid but his definition of not-affordable was not being able to afford more than a 1 bedroom apartment for him, his wife and baby as well as only being able to eat out once a month.

Of course, he knew what he was getting paid and it's not difficult these days to get a sense of cost of living for anywhere in world so he must have know what he was getting into.

In that case, I do suspect being a game dev may have led to a lower than average software developer salary.

I got back from Copenhagen recently and while food and drink are both insanely expensive, the rent was considerably less than where I live currently, but the salaries were relatively similar.

Yes, apartment-renting market in cities like Copenhagen, Stockholm or even Berlin is nothing like e.g. NYC. Tenants having much more rights leads to much fewer people willing to let in a tenant.

The fact that Danes are "living comfortably" in light of outrageous taxes and living expenses does nothing to argue against the GP's reasonable claim that perhaps Danes have low expectations.

People "live comfortably" on dirt floors in many parts of the world. That doesn't mean such a restriction on financial freedom is appropriate for everyone.

there seems to be disparity in the definition of comfort.

Your Danish home is going to be smaller, you're not going to drive a giant car, but in return you have excellent access to public transport, years of income guarantee should you lose your job, your kids and you have universal access to healthcare and education regardless where you are on the social strata and so forth. If that's a definition of comfort you like, then Denmark is for you. If you don't, you're better off somewhere else. Rest assured, nobody in Denmark is living in a hut.

This really strikes a chord with me. For as long as I have lived in the US I’ve strived for a bigger, fancier house, better car, more toys etc. and now that I’ve gotten to a comfortable level of all of that, I realize I’d give it all up for the benefits you mention. The grass is always greener as they say but it’s awfully tempting.

Just ask how long are you going to wait until a doctor is available to see you, particularly if it's a specialist. Or how long are you going to wait for a surgery.

Denmark has some of the lowest waiting times among OECD countries

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016885101...

and some of the highest physician density in the developed world. I'm German and have worked in Denmark, and have never experienced waiting times.

The “living comfortably” part is a bit vague, but by any reasonable definition someone who is earning an average salary in a country which frequently appears in the top 5 of the various human development/quality of life indices is very likely to be living a good life. You can’t say the same for someone sleeping on a dirt floor.

yes, the problem here is that upper middle class americans expect to be able to buy and buy whatever they please without ever feeling a pinch

Yes, but also some luxuries are way more expensive in Denmark compared to the US. Big houses and luxury cars for example.

As they should be. Nobody needs a big house or a car (of any type). If they still want to have those, why not give something to the society in the process?

Being an expat myself, I cannot help but notice that it's often more expensive than being a local, especially in the beginning. Less choice in housing, no family support, being unable to claim certain benefits either because not qualifying or simply being unfamiliar with local laws are some of the reasons causing this. If you need a visa/work permit you can also incur siginificant expenses (both time and money) because of that.

I have an above-average income in the UK, and often hear about "people who live on half of what I do" conviniently omitting their reliance on social housing, family help, and state benefits, all of which I lack. While it's possible for a foreigner to acquire those things, it takes a significant amount of time.

> I find the idea of moving and raising my family there very appealing.

Are you prepared for 6 months of cold, rain/snow, wind and short days with dim or no sunlight?

But it's a dry cold :)

I'm okay with that - I miss seasons living in Southern CA - but my wife on the other hand, would not enjoy that.

Devs are not paid as well in Europe, probably a factor.

And then his industry was gamedev...

Games being one of the most exploitative bits of the industry :/

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