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Comment by oliv__ | Hacker News Reader

> "That the dude off in the corner consuming his Instagram feed will be looked at the same as the guy standing at the street corner sucking on a Marlboro."

I don't think that's ever going to happen. Social networks, contrary to smoking, are built on the very nature of human beings: being social animals. And that's certainly not going away. It would be like wishing that the buddies socializing on the corner would be looked at the same as the guy smoking next to them.

There's no doubt that our natural inclination to socialize is being used and twisted through these slot-machine social networks, but if you're going to wish for something, wish for better social networks, or better education to help people control themselves, just not for humans to stop being social.

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> Social networks, contrary to smoking, are built on the very nature of human beings: being social animals.

Bullshit. After quitting I still went to the smoking area at work just to hang out with the people that were taking a break there. Especially when it was completely accepted smoking was considered very social, like grabbing a beer together still is. The "hey let's grab a smoke" is what I miss about smoking.

I've never smoked (cigarettes) but I have often envied that a smoker could go and just sit, alone at the bar say, just a moment of peace and calm, and it wasn't weird that there was a guy there just staring into space, because he was "having a smoke" and that was an activity in and of itself. Or on a park bench or just anywhere. I sometimes fake playing with my phone, just so I can do it.

Indeed. Since I quit smoking I miss the inarguable excuse (not just to others but myself as well) that smoking offered to leave a party, go outside, stare into the night's stars and just relax while pondering the universe and my own insignificance.

Can anyone think of a good non-carcinogenic substitute?

Realizing you don't need an excuse to do what you like doing.

Taking a moment to relax and gaze at the stars or enjoy a coffee on your own just sitting there lost in thought is as good an activity as having a smoke. I really don't see people judging other people for it.

Or if you're actually looking for an activity not an excuse, just thinking about a interesting topic/problem and writing down the thoughts going through your head on your phone (or even better onto a piece of paper/notepad, no interruptions) can be an very satisfying activity I found out.

Really helps me to focus on whatever I'm thinking about too.

Easier said than done, but wake up an hour earlier and go for a run. Don't need to kill yourself, just go outside or to the gym or something.

Although it won't give the same social protection, chewing a gum is a ritual for me and helps me relax. I started this habit after seeing it on the show House of Cards and to my surprise it is really effective for me :).

I think you can always say that you need some fresh air and go out.

A non-smoking table. We have one at work.

It's mostly empty, though.

Vaping.

A book :)

Former smoker here, currently vaping. Weaned myself all the way down to zero nicotine, preparing to take the plunge and give it up altogether. I've already recognized that the physical act of having a smoke is more addictive for me than the nicotine. I've come to the same conclusion that you did. I need to find a phone number that I can call and listen to a recorded message or something, just so I will have an excuse to escape outside and disconnect for a few minutes.

Sure, smoking can be considered as a social habit. But you can say the same of any drug. If it was only the social part which was important, you shouldn't have any problem starting a new habit of taking a break for another arbitrary reason (go for some fresh air, glass of water, just want to take a break, etc.). This type of break can work, but it's definitely not going to have as much success as would a smoke break. Hence I say that the mean reason for those breaks was not social interaction, the social was just a side effect (albeit a pleasant one).

I totally get it but, and I had this mild disagreement with my wife recently, what if I'm on duolingo learning Spanish? What if I'm checking my investments or making a trade? What if I'm texting with a friend who just lost a loved one? You can't make assumptions about what people are doing on their phones all the time. I spend too much time on my phone, but a lot of it is useful and productive. With that said, I'm firmly in the "I need to stop doing the unproductive things that I do on my phone" camp.

>what if I'm on duolingo learning Spanish? What if I'm checking my investments or making a trade?

...ah, the Paul Erdos defense:

http://amphetamines.com/paul-erdos.html

> I spend too much time on my phone, but a lot of it is useful and productive.

Looks like we might need to an another item to the list:

http://www.magicmgmt.com/magic/abuse-excuse/

I'm all for raising the awareness about how dangerous any addiction can be, but comparing amphetamines and alcohol to using a smartphone is a bit far-fetched.

There are many things you can do with a smartphone, many uses are bad, but some are good. I'm in the same case as the post you replied to. I use my smartphone to review flashcards and read books when I commute, and I don't see any better way to use my time.

Nothing pisses me off more when I am talking with someone and they take their phone out to check a notification or people using their phone during a conversation or meeting. Once someone pulls their phone out, I stop caring about the conversation, meeting etc... While cigarette smoke gives me a headache, I would actually prefer someone pull out smoke as I know they are still engaged in the conversation or meeting.

Social media in my opinion is an oxymoron.

Yeah, I usually stop talking when someone does that and wait for them to look up, though sometimes they don't...

The other day I saw a woman on the subway spending almost 5 minutes trying to take a flattering selfie.

It was pretty sad.

Ha. I have a Facebook friend (actually the wife of a friend) who clearly spends hours dolling herself up for her Facebook profile photo, which she updates every few weeks. Full makeup, hair mussed just so, just the right angle and smile. Instead of thinking, "man, Candy's looking great!", I'm thinking, "it's kind of pathetic that she thinks anyone cares enough about her profile photo that she would spend that much time on it."

There was someone in mobile repair who said the other day that some customers insist on retrieving dozens of selfies.

I'd argue 'social' in media and in beings are different things. And regarding the very nature, we're all dopamine junkies. That little kick after a cigarette and a fresh like on FB do the same thing to your brains, google 'social media addicts' - you'll get the picture. Facebook and social is just like Marlboro and independence.

Maybe they don't do the same thing, because the pathway is different, so the feedback is directed differently, as you say, different things. Maybe they are not all that different because both work, in part, by association with a perceived in-group. Then again, social networking, ie. facebook in it inception, has a focus on sexual instincts, whereas smoking, by my estimate, mostly uses hunger (and other pain) related pathways.

> Social networks, contrary to smoking, are built on the very nature of human beings: being social animals.

I can’t think of much less social than sitting by yourself, in your own little world, consuming an endless feed of nothing on a web site. If there’s anything Social Media isnt, it’s “social”.

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