Hacker News Reader

Comment by nerdponx | Hacker News Reader

Take a look at the light: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13873787

Any jurisdiction in North America would just put a Stop or Yield sign there.

In North America, they use a stop sign for basically every situation. So the continent is plastered with stop signs, none of which show their intent.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The intent of a stop sign is to require the driver to stop and check that it is safe to continue before doing so. I don't see how a stop sign could fail to convey that intent.

In the rest of the world its a given that you'll check its safe to continue before driving through an intersection ;)

Around here (Norway), stop signs are only used at particularly risky intersections.

To illustrate how rare they are, I can only think of two within a 100-mile radius[0] - both in places where you are about to enter a road with a 50mph/80kmh speed limit and where visibility is terrible in either direction.

[0] In fairness I should mention that 2/3 of that circle falls in the Norwegian Sea, where stop signs are exceedingly rare...

> Around here (Norway), stop signs are only used at particularly risky intersections.

The same as in Bucharest, Romania. That's why when I see a stop sign I make double-sure when looking for cars who have right of way over me.

He must be talking about the four way stop crossing, a thing that is entirely unheard of in Europe. Over here, if no road gets priority, it's either a roundabout or priority to the right. In case of a deadlock, all three solution become first in first out, but only the four way stop requires everybody to shed all inertia even when the resource is not contested.

Compared to the countries of Europe where I have driven, the American traffic I have experienced often seemed excessively polite, to the point where I think that (relative to Europe) it would be more socially acceptable to drive bad because of being dangerously distracted than to drive bad due to being in a hurry.

I have long suspected a causal relation between the politeness and the four way stop, I just can't figure out the direction of causation.

Obviously roundabouts are fine. But an unsignaled intersection? Most intersections do not have nearly enough visibility to make a go vs. yield decision while you're going at full speed and traffic from the left or right is also going at full speed.

Easy one: you don't approach such an intersection at full speed. The difference between safe speed and a complete stop is substantial (even more so if you can pretty much ignore one of two directions).

> Easy one: you don't approach such an intersection at full speed. The difference between safe speed and a complete stop is substantial

I still have to slow down a lot because I'm not sure how fast the other drivers are going. At that point it's not a big deal if I stop.

> even more so if you can pretty much ignore one of two directions

That sounds like an intersection that would not be a four way stop in the first place.

Why would everyone blow through an intersection at full speed?

Sometimes stop signs are used because of interference with other drivers (check it's safe to checking other drivers), sometimes they refer to pedestrians (check it's safe by checking pedestrians), sometimes they refer to some other kind of danger, for example it could be something like speed bumps. Basically a stop sign is there to tell you to stop (even if it's not really necessary) and watch out for something (without telling you what).

There exist all sorts of signs that actually tell the driver what to watch out for, and make the right of way situation clearer. But in North America, a stop sign is used in most situations.

Four-way stop signs are another form of silliness. They often happen in residential areas where small streets cross. In Europe you'd have 'right before left' rules that only really matter when cars actually meet; in North America you have to come to a complete halt, constantly.

I'm no driver, and am not a big fan of drivers or driving in general. But I kind of understand why drivers are so aggravated here.

You stop and then wait your turn to proceed. This is the same meaning everywhere in the US and if there are additional restrictions there will be separate signs imposing them.

What is it that confuses you about them?

From what I understand, the difference is:

- In Europe a stop sign means that you have to wait until the way is clear. Of course, you normally don't have stops on more than two of the roads crossing. (Theoretically, you can wait forever at a stop, since people on the other roads won't stop and let you through)

- In North America (I've seen it in Canada), you have stop signs on all four roads crossing and you get through in a first in first out turn.

It seems to me that

- the US uses stop signs as a way to slow down the traffic (so, no real meaning), but

- in Europe it does have a clear meaning: "it's dangerous to drive over a crossing without halting". Not only you have to be careful because you have no right of way (the "give way" sign) but you really have to stop and look at the traffic, mostly due to poor visibility (or high difference in speed).

There's two types of stop signs in the US- normal stop sign and a 4 way stop. 4 way stops are marked as such. Normal stop signs work "like Europe."

In practice stop signs don't work at all in the US. People roll through them, sometimes not even slowing down and can't understand whoo goes first at 4 way stop. So they either sit at the stop sign frantically waving on all cars that are approaching until no more cars are approaching or they just go at some random time or they just blow through the sign altogether.

Anyways, 4 way stops aren't just for slowing down traffic, though they are sometimes used that way. They are for when you have two roads coming together that both have roughly the same amount of traffic (no 'main' road) but don't want to put in a light.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com