I cannot overstate the danger we are all in every day this psychopathic fascist is allowed to remain in that office. He must be stopped immediately. Our most fundamental and cherished values are at stake here.
I cannot overstate the danger we are all in every day this psychopathic fascist is allowed to remain in that office. He must be stopped immediately. Our most fundamental and cherished values are at stake here.
Really, the entire statement isn't that exciting, it just says "Agency will continue to follow legal structure of government as all agencies do." Mostly it's just an attempt to reassure people that things aren't as out of hand as they seem.
(especially not people we gave green cards and visas to after subjecting them to years, or decades, of bureacracy and vetting)
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Following-Detainment-Re...
It'll probably end up going to the Supreme court, the Supreme court has two Obama appointees and with justice Scalia passed away there is a chance it could go in the ACLU's favor. . . but established constitutional law is clear, the Supreme court has ruled time and time again that America can turn away anyone at the boarder and non-citizens do not have a right to stay in America . . . so defeating this executive order at the Supreme court level will require some doing, which might happen because of the current composition of the court has judges that are willing to veer away from established precedent.
ACLU of course would argue the whole order is invalid, but I don't think this part would be easy to prove and not likely to get emergency order broad enough, and it probably would take more than 60 days to go through which means challenging this particular order in its entirety may be moot by the time it gets to any sort of trial. If the subsequent policy will match it though it still may have a point.
It seems to me the last and the first paragraph are saying different things.
How can DHS be implementing ALL of the executive action, when part of it has been stayed by the court?
Assuming this statement is, as it says, a response to the litigation (i.e. the challenge which led the court to stay part of the executive action), I don't see how you can read that first paragraph as anything but a denial that they will abide by the partial stay.
Is there any evidence to suggest that they are following the court order and not enforcing that part of the action? The (admittedly hopelessly unreliable) twittering from human rights lawyers involved, seems to suggest they are not.
That last paragraph reads like a tack on to me.
But we're all trying to parse the words and I suspect the statement will be irrelevant, and what happens on the ground will decide how this goes forwards.
It's just a minor difference in the people effected.
Just FWIW, from what I can interpret, the ruling is broader than just the people currently 'on the ground' - they were the petitioners, but the judgement was not limited to them, but to:
"individuals with refugee applications approved by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services as part of the U.S. Refugee Admissions Program, holders of valid immigrant and non-immigrant visas, and other individuals from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, and Yemen legally authorized to enter the United States."
There's no indication that the stay is limited to the petitioners or current detainees. I assume it would prevent deportation of anyone with legal grounds to be here, who arrive tomorrow, or any time until the full case is heard.
So we'll have to see if anyone is deported. Or if DHS get their act together and stop people boarding.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-chao...
That said, after another hour of research, I think I got it now :) I think I wasn't wrong, just my point about the judgement was totally moot. The deportation issue only arose because when the executive action came into force there were already flights with confirmed passengers (either in the air, or soon to leave). So they'd gone through the pre-flight checking under the old rules, but landed at immigration under the new rules. But the way of enforcing the action will be to prevent people flying in the first place. Passport details are required to be sent to DHS before a passenger boards a plane to the US, and have been for a long time, nothing new there. And DHS routinely prevents people flying at source. So the deportation issue shouldn't arise for new passengers (modulo edge cases like someone on a transatlantic cruise who'll ship up in New York at some point). So if I'm now right, the journalists are correct, this judgement will only apply in practice to those who are currently being detained for deportation.
But again, I'm happy to emphasise that I have done roughly 2 hours of online reading in this area now :) I'm posting here to try and figure it out, not to claim expertise!
Phrases like "first step" are anticipating stronger measures to come. The introduction makes it clear that the agency believes that these measures will in fact reduce security. I don't have enough information to refute that claim, but I don't believe it either.
As an outsider to the USA, I would have liked to have seen more balance. For instance, it would have been reassuring to hear that DHS had taken legal advice on its obligations and how best to implement them without rushing in.
I suspect that the release is written for individuals near to Cabinet who want to know that officials are complying without question. Does not bode well.
"@pierre: This is unbelievable. When asked by two Congressmen [who they report to] CBP agents at LAX said "Donald J Trump" and hung up."
We've got institutional processes for dealing with executive branch policies that we disagree with. It certainly looks like the legislature and the judiciary are responding and peaceful assembly and protest can help motivate change as can healthy reporting by the press.
On the other hand you are advocating for overthrow of the government and a complete disregard for the democratic process and the rule of law. Instead of arguing on the merits your spit out overwrought accusations of fraudulent, fascist, and psychotic behavior.
Our most cherished value is that of the rule of law. Even in the presence of flawed policies and corrupt practices, belief and adherence to the rule of law provides a way to respond to and rectify these mistakes. Asserting that things are so bad that the rule of law should be disregarded and that someone should be removed from office because you don't agree with their lawful policy changes is a certain path to disaster.
That sounds for all the world like the executive branch rejecting the authority of the judicial branch.
The statement then goes on to say:
"The Department of Homeland Security will comply with judicial orders..."
So no, the executive branch is not rejecting the authority of the judicial branch.
I do remember that being a scandal.
To your main point, a story has been going around that a court has put a stay on the executive order. If true, this would mean that enforcing the order is currently illegal; and doing so could be called a "coup" by the executive branch (although I don't think this technically qualifies as a coup).
Having said that, my understanding is that the referenced court case only applies to the specific individuals who sued, so enforcement of the order is still legal in all other cases.
I understand the DHS statement to simply amount to "we aren't lawyers, so until a judge rules on whether the entire order is constitutional, we have to assume it is and act accordingly. We have lawyers on staff who will tell us how other rulings affect our actions, and how far those rulings go."
It's important to remember that executive orders are legally binding on people who work for the president, but not anyone else. Usually, they say how an ambiguous law will be interpreted, or they add limitations on top of what the law requires.
In this case, the president has directed various people to take certain actions. The courts will have to determine if those actions are legal. It wouldn't surprise me if some actions are legal (cabinet members are supposed to review the policies for the refugee program) and others aren't (prioritize immigrants based on their religion). But DHS doesn't get to conduct its own review of the order; they have to assume the whole thing is legally binding.
If multiple federal courts start granting injunctions against particular parts of the order, then things might change. I'm not sure how that works; although I am sure that government-paid lawyers will conduct their own review of the order, and I strongly suspect that the president has to approve any decisions to not implement a portion of an executive order.
Maybe you can link me to the comment thread where HN was breathless about the need for assassination or civil war.
That story is false (at least as far as I know). The stay was put on one detail of the implementation of the order, not the whole order - namely, on deporting green card holders that has already arrived in US airports.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darweesh_v._Trump
> Having said that, my understanding is that the referenced court case only applies to the specific individuals who sued
ACLU is seeking class action status, but in the meantime if several judges agreed that the stay is warranted I imagine it would be not hard for any person (with access to law assistance etc. of course) to be able to obtain similar order.
Actually, the parent does explicitly say this:
our illegitimate "President"
The subject is 'President' and the adjective is 'illegitimate'. If the parent meant that Trump's actions are not legally sound, then they would have written:
"...in which our "President" is illegitimately overriding the authority of the judicial branch..."
>"The Department of Homeland Security will comply with judicial orders..."
Yeah, not seeing it. The stay is temporary, not permanent. He is allowed to continue enforcing his EO.
To some extent it appears that the American public enjoys working itself into a hysteric frenzy. One might almost view it as political virtue signalling on a national scale.
Well there's a rational statement. We had an election. Trump won it, under the rules which have been in place for centuries. Clinton knew what the rules were as well, and she didn't play the game as well. Another country attempted to influence public opinion during the election, which has also been going on for centuries.
I assume your "illegitimate President" comment is due to the leaked emails. If the Hillary/DNC emails had all been about how they were going to work hard for America, then the leak wouldn't have affected her and would have actually helped her. Instead, they were about unethical and illegal activity aimed at ensuring she won the election. If you engage in that sort of thing as a Presidential candidate/political party executive, you should get caught and you should lose.
This looks day after day like a classical far-right takeover of the govt and people in the US should be really alarmed by these developments.
Don't count on Congressional Republicans to fix this. They've used coded bigotry since 1968. And now it's become uncoded. But either way always consistently there is the bigotry.
Now maybe some Republicans finally have an OMFG moment and can now actually hear the dirty dog whistle, and will revaluate. But for Pence, Ryan, McConnell, it's too late.
We keep failing each test. We couldn't flick them off at the primary. And then not at the general. At each step it gets harder and harder to fix, by design.
The policy is sadistic. They are attacking the weakest among us. It's easy for them to do it, and amounts to a test, how much they can get away with.
All I see is the fascist partisan bickering in your post. Trump has legitimately won the election and is doing what his powers let him do. He was clear about Muslim ban before election too and people voted for him.
I think we can make better arguments as to why his moronic executive orders hurt USA in a major way and perhaps work to gather political support to reduce the damage but getting angry and abusive does not help.
There's certainly an argument to be made that diversity of thought and behavior has a net positive effect on society.
However, it's become apparent that the dogma of multiculturalism is causing major problems where a certain religion is concerned. We'd be foolish to ignore this fact.
You are excited and over estimating the danger, and misstating facts such as his legitimacy. Those kind of things will cloud the discussion and prevent support from the kind of groups you need to defeat him.
The smart move would be to collect information and watch him fail, then move for impeachment. Then start dealing with Pence.....
The President is not issuing a coup. It says directly in the statement they will comply with the judicial orders.
And in Mass (and Mass only) now they are not allowed to detain: https://twitter.com/sdooling/status/825602397007409153
Although some are reporting otherwise: http://nypost.com/2017/01/29/customs-agents-ignore-judge-enf... It seems they are mistaken