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Comment by YeGoblynQueenne | Hacker News Reader

>> I want to be excited by a good non-Apple laptop. But they're all just so terribly designed. They're always some sort of plastic, feel flimsy and bendy, have grills and screw holes and uneven surfaces and stickers everywhere.

Is this really a serious reason to buy a laptop, or not, the design? You buy a computer because of its performance, not its appearance- which is something completely subjective in the first place.

I agree about the toughness requirement, but, like others said below the X1 Carbon is called "Carbon" as in "carbon fiber", which it's made of (although the fourth gen model has a lid that's a mix of carbon fiber and plastic).

I've stepped on my second gen. Carbon a good few times and I've dropped my fourth gen on its lid from a coffee table, and they're both hale and hearty.

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For me it has nothing to do with appearance - it has to do with feel.

My job provides me with an HP Ultrabook. When I type on it, the plastic near the trackpad creaks. If I bought it retail it's something like $1400. And it creaks.

If I'm spending $1400 on a piece of technology I expect to have for 3-5 years, and I'm going to be hauling it between locations (on-call schedule) I really need to feel like "Yeah, this won't get broken if I accidentally put something a little heavy on top of it (e.g. in my bag)".

It's partially a performance story, but I rather pay an extra $100-200 for a solid chassis that makes me think the motherboard won't bend when I put pressure from my wrists on it.

> Is this really a serious reason to buy a laptop, or not, the design?

Yes.

> You buy a computer because of its performance, not its appearance

For a desktop/workstation maybe, and even that is debatable (I would not buy a desktop computer with plexiglas panels and LEDs all over).

For a laptop though, the design is part of the function and has an impact on it. Design is part and parcel of a laptop's usability and usage, and impacts its effective lifespan (you can get mileage out of a laptop while it's falling to pieces but that's not an enjoyable experience).

And of course a laptop is not stashed away in a corner of the desk (or under it hidden from you), it's usually right in front of your face and right under your fingers, liking how it looks is a pretty good idea.

> which is something completely subjective in the first place.

That just means the design you want is different from the design I want. Maybe you like the Surface Book and I don't (I do, but bear with me).

> Design is part and parcel of a laptop's usability and usage, and impacts its effective lifespan (you can get mileage out of a laptop while it's falling to pieces but that's not an enjoyable experience).

I don't think that's a fair characterization of the thinkpad experiance. I own one, and every other owner I know, hasn't had these things crap out. Also, if they do crap out there are guides telling you exactly what to do. The case also exposes the screws you need to take out to fix certian problems.

Spill coffee on your laptop and need to order a new keyboard and trackpad module? Flip over the laptop and the screws are labeld with pictures of a keyboard and a trackpad.

> And of course a laptop is not stashed away in a corner of the desk (or under it hidden from you), it's usually right in front of your face and right under your fingers, liking how it looks is a pretty good idea

A computer is a tool. Would you buy a shovel if it was very bad at shoveling and had a pre-determined lifespan just because it was colored to match your khakis?

> A computer is a tool. Would you buy a shovel if it was very bad at shoveling and had a pre-determined lifespan just because it was colored to match your khakis?

In that sense, a car is just a tool to get you from A to B. So buying a Porsche would be completely pointless.

Clothes are just tools for keeping you warm. It's pointless to take pride in how you present yourself.

So many of my engineering friends think this way. Too many. In fact, most of Sweden thinks this way about cars, and most of Germany thinks this way about clothes.

>> So many of my engineering friends think this way. Too many. In fact, most of Sweden thinks this way about cars, and most of Germany thinks this way about clothes.

Are we talking cars and clothes now? I'm Greek and I don't drive, but I certainly like my Italian fashion as much as the next fashion victim. Brains just don't come into it. But a computer is a computer and a coat is a coat- you can't think the same way about both.

Even so, in fashion too there's a lot to be said about building stuff to last, even as you make them look and feel good. Terry Pratchett has a bit about this in a couple of the Discworld novels, where he notes how cheap shoes end up being more expensive because you have to buy a new pair every year whereas expensive ones are made to last for decades, so you may pay a premium once, but it turns out cheaper on the long run (and I think he goes on to comment how this is another way rich people keep their money etc).

I think you'll find that the most highly valued (and therefore, most expensive) fashion tends to be made according to this ideal, of beauty that lasts.

> In that sense, a car is just a tool to get you from A to B. So buying a Porsche would be completely pointless.

A Porsche is a different class of car in quality of construction and maximum speed achievable. That's the only reason I'd buy one. My car is a Subaru Forester and I love it.

> Clothes are just tools for keeping you warm. It's pointless to take pride in how you present yourself.

Some clothes keep you warmer or cooler depending on the environment. I guess I'm a minimalist but all of my shirts and pants are either single colored or a line pattern on a button up. They work fine as shirts, the only upgrade they need is pockets.

>So many of my engineering friends think this way. Too many. In fact, most of Sweden thinks this way about cars, and most of Germany thinks this way about clothes.

I guess some people are just fine with presenting themselves as a person and don't want to look special. I personally thing my winning personality will keep people away if my cloths don't so I'm already set.

I think you're focusing too much on the aesthetic aspect of the word "design," and not enough on the functional aspect.

I buy a laptop to use, and if I have to use a spongy keyboard, a stupid pointing nipple, a subpar trackpad, or deal with a creaking, bendy case, then the 8 to 10 hours I spend in front of that damn thing every day are not going to be very pleasant for me, and I cannot stress the importance of that enough.

I understood that the OP mostly meant design as in aesthetics:

They're always some sort of plastic, feel flimsy and bendy, have grills and screw holes and uneven surfaces and stickers everywhere.

The "flimsy and bendy" feel is more than just aesthetics, but owning two generations of the Carbon, it really doesn't apply to it. For the second gen. the term "brick shithouse" comes to mind. The fourth gen. has more plastic on the lid (which though feels "smooth as a baby's butt" according to a colleague) but its innards are tough as nails and knowing that's enough for me.

In any case, like I say what I need from a computer is performance: fast processor, as much RAM as you can fit on a laptop and plenty of storage. If I really cared about durability and toughness that much, I'd get a Toughbook [1].

_____________

[1] http://business.panasonic.co.uk/computer-product/products-an...

I've come very clost to buying one, several times. I just like the idea of a computer I can take with me on the beach and use to browse the 'nets while lying on an inflatable mattress in the sea. That'd be cool and it'd border on "design" trumping specs even in my book. On the other hand, I'd look a bit of a pillock so I've never gotten round to it.

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