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Comment by shmerl | Hacker News Reader

> I got a variety of responses including that I should install the open source dd-wrt firmware... No, no, a hundred times no...

Silly. If the author doesn't want to follow good advice, too bad for him.

I'm using WRT1900ACS with DD-WRT. It works like a charm.

> if I buy a product then I expect it to work as advertised and not need to implement hacks to keep it alive.

It's not a "hack". It's installing a better quality OS on the device. Again, if the author doesn't want to do that, there is no reason to complain.

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In my experience, the DD-WRT firmwares are on the same level as XDA android images.

Yes, the overall feature set is richer, and performance might be better. But all that is offset by some completely ridiculous bugs, like having to modify 5ghz wifi settings only via cli, because touching a single switch on web-based admin panel causes it to die (my current tp-link).

And there have been bugs like that on every router I've tried. Always some catch. It might very well even boil down to issues on the hardware level, but the point still stands - the combination has never been stable enough.

That's a terrible analogy. I use both cyanogenmod/XDA images on my phone and custom firmware on my routers. There is no comparison. The XDA images lack drivers, feature, and have strange bugs. While the DD-WRT is rock solid, years of uptime.

I flashed my parents classic WRT-54G with DD-WRT and 6 years later it was still running without a single reboot(networking equip on UPS). I also have another linksys that's sold as a router that I turned into a wireless bridge for the corner of my house. This also has never had to be rebooted. Finally my ASUS AC1900 has been running merlin for years now and also rock solid.

As long as you use stable branches, Merlin, DD-WRT, and OpenWrt are a huge upgrade in stability over factory firmware. Of course, you need to run them on decent quality hardware like classic Linksys or Asus.

TP-LINK is cheap chinese crap. It gets poor reviews for a reason. Even the best OS/firmware can't make up for hardware bugs.

> modify 5ghz wifi settings only via cli,

Sounds better than trying to setup Java though.

Also, I've checked their site a year or two ago, they didn't even had 802.11ac option at that time.

That said, they do have pretty annoying bugs, but hey, its supports hundreds of devices... Anyway, apparently DD-WRT hasn't been a good choice for years and, according to kids, OpenWRT should be replaced with https://lede-project.org .

Not to mention that for a lot of routers, DD-WRT (and the like) will install and boot and work but they won't support all of the features; I've heard quite a few cases where AC routers would only work in N mode, or where you could set options that the hardware didn't support (and thus wouldn't take effect), and so on.

It's not their fault, necessarily; it's one team which has to maintain support for effectively hundreds of devices, and that's pretty complicated. Still, there isn't a lot of obvious warning that 'hey, a bunch of what makes your router great isn't going to work if you install this so that might not be what you want.'

My E4200 was a great example. Got it because it was well-reviewed and supported DD-WRT and the like, but changed back to the stock firmware because DD-WRT was unstable and slow. After a week of frustrating performance issues and iffy connectivity, I refreshed with the stock firmware and everything was suddenly behaving the way it should. The same thing happened with my R6250; flashed, had problems, unfleshed.

DD-WRT seems like a good way to extend the life and usefulness of existing routers, and not a way to make the latest technology work even better; in my experience, it tends to have the exact opposite effect.

Sure, development builds can vary in quality, especially on different hardware. It also depends on WiFi driver quite a lot. In case of WRT1900ACS at least, my experience was quite good. It's using mwlwifi: https://github.com/kaloz/mwlwifi

> It's installing a better quality OS on the device.

That might be the case for my car or TV too - but I just don't want to. I think it's fair to say that when I buy an appliance, if I have to worry about what software it runs (upgrade it, replace it, manage it...) it has failed me. I really don't care if it has a CPU and runs linux, it's a box that should give me wireless internet for a few years and then I replace it because there is a newer standard. If it needed updates along the way it better update itself.

That said - if I can improve it by hacking it somehow, that's fine - but it should of course work as advertised without that.

I know that most people who've had their fair share of problems with technology understand the author and identify with him immediately when he says: "No, no, a hundred times no to both - if I buy a product then I expect it to work as advertised and not need to implement hacks to keep it alive.".

The thing with technology, and especially smartphones and computers, is that there seems to be a trend going that devices dictate your behaviour, and not the other way around. For example, windows 10 makes it extremely hard to change files in some locations, won't let the user decide when to reboot and install updates, and regularly bothers the user with useless messages: 'a virus scan (hm, I don't remember starting one?) has completed without detecting any threats.'.

A lot of people have better things to do with their time. Likewise, when want to program stuff it happens that I spent more time on my tools than on coding (visual studio crashes, or won't let me start my program because there is a zombie process, or I messed up my github repository somehow).

People want to manage their own time and are willing to pay for that (especially wealthy peoplee). This is why people buy overpriced stuff (like Apple!). It is true for most hobbies that you can do them cheaply and with a lot of effort, but everyone who is involved in a more serious way usually says: 'spend some more and you'll have a much better time'.

> windows 10 … won't let the user decide when to reboot and install updates

This isn't actually true; there's a setting in the control panel to tell it when to reboot and install updates.

That said, Windows 10 will reboot to install those updates, and then, next time you log in, will make you wait several minutes while it 'finishes installing updates'. It also does so in what is intended to be a user-friendly matter, but which comes across as creepy and menacing. The first time it happened, I logged in to see a screen that said

'Hello'

Then:

'We've made some changes to your computer' (or similar unsettling language)

And then, as if they realized at this point how menacingly they were coming across:

'Your files are all where you left them'

I was 95% sure that I'd been malwared and someone had encrypted all my stuff for ransom. I actually had a moment of panic, wondering what they would have had access to from that machine.

> This is why people buy overpriced stuff (like Apple!).

I would argue that if the frustration-free approach that Apple tends to embody best appeals to you, then it's not 'overpriced', it's just more highly priced.

I think it's a fair criticism of the product that it doesn't work correctly without dd-wrt.

Oh, I agree that criticism is fair. I just don't think his approach was optimal or even the fastest way to fix those issues (and he said in the beginning, that he wants to save time). Those who recommended him DD-WRT were right, but he didn't listen. That "no, no" answer sounded more like a rant.

I've tried DD-WRT and OpenWRT on this particular Linksys router and it was no better, but this is besides the point. It made me step back and realize that I shouldn't ever have to install a third party OS just to have a router that doesn't drop out multiple times per day.

I stopped running Linux and went back to Windows (until I could get my hands on a Powerbook) the day that I sat down to write an essay and six hours later found myself rebuilding a new kernel. All I wanted to do was run a word processor and I yak-shaved myself into a two-hour kernel build before I gave up. It was an edge case, to be sure, but it was just a more extreme example of the problems I'd had already. I gave up the ability to customize every single detail in exchange for the freedom from having to customize every single detail. Simplicity.

I think the opposite. I prefer to have an open OS installed. It's a question of trust.

And did you try the recent version of DD-WRT there by the way?

At the point where you realise the sw + fw + hw package you bought doesn't do what it is supposed to I'd say you should strongly consider returning it; if for nothing else then to teach them a lesson :-/

> you should strongly consider returning it

I specifically bought hardware with open WiFi driver and well compatible with open OSes, to be able to replace the stock installation. Why should I return it now?

Ok, I'm talking about the general "you", the public, not "shmerl".

You might be able to do that. Troy Hunt doesn't want to. I don't want to. If I want to be able to inspect my network gear I guess I should go with Microtik or something but to each their own.

> I think the opposite. I prefer to have an open OS installed.

An open OS with closed source drivers? The comparison with Android XDA images wasn't so far fetched.

> And did you try the recent version of DD-WRT there by the way?

You mean the nightlies? They don't even release any stable versions anymore.

The driver is open.

The Author wants support from the MFG for their product to perform as advertised and expected. That isn't silly.

I suppose Linksys can offer him support. Slowly, and probably after a long time of figuring out what's going on. Author can be upset that it takes time, but that's how things are. Or he can save himself time and install a better OS which probably already fixed this problem and gets more frequent updates. So again, he got a good advice. But he prefers to say no and complain and go buy new hardware. I don't find that a pragmatical choice. And before he said about trying to save time...

Some help for anyone looking into DD-WRT. I use it on 2 routers (a dirt cheap TP-link and a higher end Netgear) for >3 years. Both have been stable and performant. No known issues. Things are definitely better than stock firmware.

The approach I took:

- When you're new to DD-WRT, look up your router in the database on their website. Take some time to read about installation (and maybe configuration) on their wiki. I never bricked any routers, but I can imagine taking it one step at a time prevents some headaches. Using their website search will lead you to builds which are a few years old (might differ for newer routers). I installed those initially. It might not be a bad idea to start with those as they probably match the documentation.

- But, you can also update with newer beta versions. They gave me the same stability and performance. You'll get more options and a nicer interface, but presumably also security fixes. Find those through their FTP [0]. Be sure to read which exact build you need in the wiki.

So all in all a bit rough, but worth the effort. You'll get basically the same options as the OP.

[0] http://download1.dd-wrt.com/dd-wrtv2/downloads/betas/

Why should I use DD-WRT? As far as I can see, they don't release any stable versions and their nightlies are broken all the time. The software in OpenWRT / LEDE seems to be much more up to date and they release stable versions.

It really depends on your hardware. For the WRT1900AC mentioned in the article, DD-WRT seems to have better support in recent months. The Kong builds have an especially good reputation among the DD-WRT crowd.

I'm running mainline DD-WRT on the slightly cheaper WRT1200, and aside from a couple of random 1-2 minute dropouts it's been great.

There is no evidence that using DD-WRT would have solved their problem, or was even the right choice. Its a consumer grade solution that's in-between okay and good.

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