Comment by nappy | Hacker News Reader

Comment by nappy | Hacker News Reader

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I invented the world’s first caffeinated toothpaste - get a rush while you brush! I’m a serial entrepreneur, YCW16. Though it is a simple idea, I went through at least 60 formula iterations before I got the flavor chemistry right. This toothpaste seriously works. I actually had to lower the caffeine content from the original version.

Our toothpaste gives you a quick caffeine boost that works as soon as you start brushing, even faster than coffee. (I still drink coffee, just later in the morning)

I made version 1 with a hammer in my kitchen. I smashed a caffeine pill into dust in my cast iron pan, mixed it with toothpaste from my bathroom, and I had the first-ever caffeinated toothpaste. It worked. It was a little buggy. Since that point we have raised over $40k on Indiegogo and we’ve shipped over 2,000 tubes of toothpaste so far, all made in the made in the USA. I would love to answer any questions you might have or share any knowledge I’ve gained about plastic/tube packaging, cosmetics regulations, logistics, fulfillment, domestic manufacturing, and shipping physical products in general. I’m not an expert, but I’ve learned a lot. If you want to try Power Toothpaste, I live in the Bay Area, and I’d be happy to meet up and give you a squeeze of my toothpaste.

Cheers, Ian

Your website does not contain a list of ingredients, nor do you show photos of your box with government required disclosures on it.

You admit that your toothpaste does not have fluoride, but does it contain SLS, propylene glycol, DEA, glycerin, hydrated silica, or artificial sweeteners? If so, please discontinue your product or change your formula. None of those ingredients are safe for use in toothpaste and help cause tooth damage and decay.

With the comments about "fighting plaque like leading brands", I'm actually curious whether this is legal. I believe the active ingredients disclosure box is mandatory, although possibly it's on the face of the box we can't see.

I see that the toothpaste is legal (white-labelled from an approved factory), so this is just a labelling question.

From a comment[1] elsewhere in thread, looks like they removed fluoride to avoid higher FDA scrutiny. Not sure what that means for labeling.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12507965

That may well be the only 'active' ingredient in some toothpastes, since the rest is mostly just a scrubbing aid.

Point well taken! The label and full listing of ingredients will be going up there. Sorry for this omission and thank you for this comment!

Making the list of ingredients a 1st class citizen on the box could be good marketing, if the list is simple enough. I'd certainly like to see it.

Highlighting the lack of fluoride in the product will definitely appeal to the anti-fluoridation nut jobs out there.

Piggybacking on this - Have you had any endorsements from dentists or medical professionals that this is safe to use?

Yeah, my wife can't have SLS in her toothpaste at all. It'd be great to have an ingredients list somewhere.

What's wrong with artificial sweeteners in toothpaste? Do they absorb quickly enough through the oral mucosa to spike insulin levels? Are the oral bacteria able to metabolize them?

I use Pepsodent and it contains hydrated silica. Why is it not safe?

My guess would be that it's too hard (Mohs scale) and erodes the enamel. Hydrated silica is essentially sand

So what is the recommended toothpaste? Any ideas?

Either make your own with coconut oil, baking soda, and bentonite clay, or buy a premade one like Earthpaste.

Where can I actually get toothpaste without this stuff? I looked for one without hydrated silica last time I was out shopping for toothpaste, but didn't actually see one

"I invented the world’s first caffeinated toothpaste" We invented caffeine toothpaste years ago. https://metalab.at/wiki/Mate-dent

Can we have a packet of yours for free?

> Our toothpaste gives you a quick caffeine boost that works as soon as you start brushing, even faster than coffee.

I read that caffeine in coffee form takes 15-20 min to be felt by the user. I'm curious how the toothpaste form works on the spot.

I tried to find some comparable studies, here's one that seems particularly relevant, showing the effects of caffeinated gum:

http://www.militaryenergygum.com/wp-content/uploads/Bioavail... (take a look at the second graph)

TL;DR: Yes, even with oral absorption, you probably won't feel anything after 5 minutes, and you'll be wired at 15 minutes.

This toothpaste definitely won't work "on the spot", but 10-15 minutes is still quick enough to get you going by the time you're dressed and out the door.

Sublingual administration of certain chemicals allows for they bypass of first-pass metabolism; basically going from the thin membranes in your mouth directly into your bloodstream.

Placebo effect.

I disagree - psychoactive substances applied to the gum are absorbed into the blood steam much more rapidly than those ingested.

What was your YC startup?

I'm also curious, for the same reason ontoillogical is.

I was in YCW16, so I recognize Ian from one of the companies. I don't know why, but I feel weird saying it now for the same reason both of you are and it's pretty clear he's not trying to broadcast it.

He hasn't hidden it in his HN history or Twitter profile, so it's pretty obvious if you take a look at either of those.

Why there is only one cool guy on the left in the picture on the bottom of the page?

I posted another comment, but since you also brush your teeth at night, if I bought your product I'd have to use that in the morning and another brand before going to bed.

Did you think about this? People might not want to have 2. I was going to buy it but then I thought about this.

Wait. So you're saying you can't go sleep with a little bit of coffee in your organism? I've always wondered if that's true or a myth. I can take two cups of coffee and go to bed like a rock

Actually, I thought this was great. One tube for the morning with caffeine, one tube at night with fluoride.

Quick questions:

- What is the approximate equivalent caffeine content for, say, a 2 min morning brush?

- Is it available and actually shipping, or am I "pre-ordering"?

- No fluoride? Dentists say that's pretty important.

Edit - to be clear, really loving the conecpt. I wish more random things had caffeine in them ;)

1) Full disclosure: I haven't run blood tests to figure out exactly how much caffeine you absorb brushing with my toothpaste. Here's what I can tell you: in 1 ml of toothpaste there is just under 80 mg of caffeine. 1 ml is a bit more toothpaste than the pea-sized amount of toothpaste that you should use, but less than the amount you see put on a brush in a toothpaste commercial. You don't swallow toothpaste and brush for a brief period, so there is incomplete absorption. Based on the reported experiences of people who have used Power Toothpaste, it's faster acting, but say an hour later, it doesn't feel like you've had a full mug of coffee

2) (almost) immediate shipping. I have a few hundred units fully packed and ready to ship. I put a label on them and USPS picks them up! So it might be a day or two before it gets shipped. More inventory that needs to be packed before shipment.

3) Addressed this elsewhere in greater detail elsewhere, but as an adult you need less fluoride than children, and you may be getting fluoride in your water. I might suggest looking into a fluoridated mouthwash, sold at pretty much any pharmacy. I also don't reccomend Power Toothpaste before bed, so you might use a regular, fluoridated toothpaste :)

Thanks for all of the questions!

By those numbers the 70 gram tube contains approximately 5-6 grams of caffeine? LD50 level for caffeine is estimated at 200mg/kg of body weight [2], so the tube could kill a 25kg person? I hope that the fresh minty taste isn't too attractive to children, as the lethal dose to a small child looks to be substantially less than one tube.

By comparison, about two (100g?) tubes of fluoridated toothpaste could kill a 10kg (2yr old) child [2], so a child is unlikely to die from scoffing an open tube of toothpaste that they find in the house.

Perhaps you should look at either the caffeine concentration or tube size, to ensure that an incidental poisoning can't occur due to a single open tube.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Overdose [2] http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/oral-care/kids/what...

Isn't caffeine a pretty strong acid? I'm really wondering if this is any good for your teeth.

It is probably neutralised as otherwise the toothpaste wouldn't be effective. Increasing pH is one of the mechanisms killing bacteria and preventing decay.

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