Show HN: I invented a caffeinated toothpaste
powertoothpaste.com
powertoothpaste.com
Our toothpaste gives you a quick caffeine boost that works as soon as you start brushing, even faster than coffee. (I still drink coffee, just later in the morning)
I made version 1 with a hammer in my kitchen. I smashed a caffeine pill into dust in my cast iron pan, mixed it with toothpaste from my bathroom, and I had the first-ever caffeinated toothpaste. It worked. It was a little buggy. Since that point we have raised over $40k on Indiegogo and we’ve shipped over 2,000 tubes of toothpaste so far, all made in the made in the USA. I would love to answer any questions you might have or share any knowledge I’ve gained about plastic/tube packaging, cosmetics regulations, logistics, fulfillment, domestic manufacturing, and shipping physical products in general. I’m not an expert, but I’ve learned a lot. If you want to try Power Toothpaste, I live in the Bay Area, and I’d be happy to meet up and give you a squeeze of my toothpaste.
Cheers, Ian
You admit that your toothpaste does not have fluoride, but does it contain SLS, propylene glycol, DEA, glycerin, hydrated silica, or artificial sweeteners? If so, please discontinue your product or change your formula. None of those ingredients are safe for use in toothpaste and help cause tooth damage and decay.
I see that the toothpaste is legal (white-labelled from an approved factory), so this is just a labelling question.
- What is the approximate equivalent caffeine content for, say, a 2 min morning brush?
- Is it available and actually shipping, or am I "pre-ordering"?
- No fluoride? Dentists say that's pretty important.
Edit - to be clear, really loving the conecpt. I wish more random things had caffeine in them ;)
2) (almost) immediate shipping. I have a few hundred units fully packed and ready to ship. I put a label on them and USPS picks them up! So it might be a day or two before it gets shipped. More inventory that needs to be packed before shipment.
3) Addressed this elsewhere in greater detail elsewhere, but as an adult you need less fluoride than children, and you may be getting fluoride in your water. I might suggest looking into a fluoridated mouthwash, sold at pretty much any pharmacy. I also don't reccomend Power Toothpaste before bed, so you might use a regular, fluoridated toothpaste :)
Thanks for all of the questions!
By comparison, about two (100g?) tubes of fluoridated toothpaste could kill a 10kg (2yr old) child [2], so a child is unlikely to die from scoffing an open tube of toothpaste that they find in the house.
Perhaps you should look at either the caffeine concentration or tube size, to ensure that an incidental poisoning can't occur due to a single open tube.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Overdose [2] http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/oral-care/kids/what...
Did you think about this? People might not want to have 2. I was going to buy it but then I thought about this.
I read that caffeine in coffee form takes 15-20 min to be felt by the user. I'm curious how the toothpaste form works on the spot.
http://www.militaryenergygum.com/wp-content/uploads/Bioavail... (take a look at the second graph)
TL;DR: Yes, even with oral absorption, you probably won't feel anything after 5 minutes, and you'll be wired at 15 minutes.
This toothpaste definitely won't work "on the spot", but 10-15 minutes is still quick enough to get you going by the time you're dressed and out the door.
He hasn't hidden it in his HN history or Twitter profile, so it's pretty obvious if you take a look at either of those.
Can we have a packet of yours for free?
This seems bizarre to me. People don't want fluoride in their toothpaste? Why not? Dentists seem pretty unanimous that everyone should brush twice a day with fluoride toothpaste.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/tooth-decay-calgary-fl...
Are unlikely to dissuade folks given the echo chambers people are encouraged to live in today.
The environment???
Fluoride, like many minerals, is naturally occurring in many water sources, just not (all) of the ones that are used for drinking water. Additionally, the concentration of fluoride for this purpose is minuscule (0.7 mg/L according to Health Canada).
Up here in Maine we have a pretty bad fluoride issue in some areas, and a lot of people are not testing their well water, and ending up with fluoride poisoning.
Until recently I couldn't avoid government insurance here in America, and the IRS penalizes me monthly for it at a rate higher than the cost of subsidized insurance.
And flouride in your water doesn't replace toothpaste. Are you seriously trying to tell me if I don't brush but drink enough water a day, without changing my sugar consumption and after-meal rinsing habits, that my gums will stay healthy? I don't think you really know what you're talking about.
- Dental cavities can be prevented by maintaining a constant low level of fluoride in the oral cavity.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs318/en/
It doesn't seem like it's an issue to you, personally, because we have flourinated water.
As a child, I used to get nauseated after brushing my teeth and formed a physical aversion I had to overcome daily. After discovering flouride-free toothpaste a few years ago, I stopped feeling sick after brushing. It's possible I have an underactive thyroid but I haven't sought a real diagnoses.
Putting flouride in our tap doesn't solve sugar over-consumption or bad dental care. And it possibly aggravates hyperthyroidism in some people, though I don't know of any conclusive studies.
I though you just said that tooth decay isn't still a public health concern, now it is?
Are you saying the WHO is wrong? Based on what evidence?
Don't hijack my argument into something else.
I said it wasn't the government's responsibility to flouridate my drinking water. That isn't what I pay taxes for.
^ Is what you really said, which didn't make sense even in context.
You pay taxes for what your democratically elected representatives determine it's for, not what you personally think - and like the WHO, they think some of it should be marginally spent on solving major public health concerns.
The idea that democratic elections are functioning in a representative way in America is a joke. I have no control over many policies that govern me. But I still reserve the right to decide what I think are worthwhile tax expenditures. Your same logic would invalidate the gross overspending of taxes towards my government's defense budget.
At least you understand saying, "That's not what I pay taxes for" is a moot argument then.
Nowadays we consume processed water which is clear of many impurities and tends to come just one source. The quality is extremely consistent, so we don't die of poisonings and contaminations. But then, the selection of where our drinking water comes from, and the purification processes may have the impact that the fluoride level is consistently lower than is good. Hence the possible need to add fluoride to water.
Note that they didn't /remove/ the recommendation for fluoride in water. They just reduced the recommended amount.
1: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/04/27/40257994...
What I do works for me, and works well - I look for fluoride-free products - you can stick with using agricultural waste in your water supply, but I stay off it!
I find it amazing that only basic testing is needed for cosmetic products and something one is easily ingesting (slightly) on a day to day basis, but yet... fluoride requires animal testing?
I would think at this point, a simple chemical composition testing the fluorine levels would be appropriate enough. They obviously don't find the caffeine a threat enough to warrant such things in the product.
In the case of toothpaste, we've already tested fluoride. I'm going to guess we know the safe limits and the recommended amounts in the stuff. So as long as there isn't any new sorts of drug in the toothpaste and one is using pretty standard safe sort of ingredients, there isn't really a need for some of the testing - animal or human testing. Tests to verify the percentage of fluoride in the toothpaste? Absolutely. Getting the fluoride from verified sources? Sure thing. And so on.
Cosmetics have relatively few standards comparatively [1]. In a way, it seems to be enough. It likely isn't an issue with common ingredients - same situation as fluoride. But on the other hand, if a company uses a new ingredient, I'd rather have some sort of official tests for safety. I think this is probably especially important with things used around the eyes and lips - and I'm not sure some of the warning labels are quite enough. For example, some of the Halloween makeup will have warnings not to use certain colors around the eyes (usually black or red). Of course, this is in small print on the back of the package, and not on the container holding the makeup. Yet if you look at the package, it often has that very color near the eyes.
[1]http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/GuidanceRegulation/LawsRegulati...
This is probably exactly what the testing is for. Consider a drug that is (fluoride + X), where both fluoride and X are "already tested and safe". Are we sure that for all values for X, (fluoride + X) is safe also?
Of course, it might also be prudent to get certified to handle fluoride as well as manufacture toothpaste with it and other such things.
But then again, caffeine is a drug occasionally as well. Excedrine has to list it on their FDA required product information: No-Doz (caffeine pills) has the same sort of label. Granted, it might be more benign than fluoride - yet the FDA sees no problem with it being in toothpaste so long as he doesn't have the fluoride.
I don't know all the details, mostly because I've never wanted to manufacture toothpaste. But it seems there should be a simple way of doing this stuff with simple tests in most cases, and that the information should be easily accessible.
Additionally, fluoride is much more important for children. As enamel is forming, fluoride interacts with it and strengthens it. Adults need far less (threshold dose effect) and for most people in the United States, they likely get enough in the water. I also figure this is a toothpaste you'll use in the morning, and another fluoridated one in the evening. You can also use a fluoridated mouthwash.
At some point, I would love to introduce a fluoridated version.
Good job getting this off the ground, and best of luck with it.
I really like the idea of caffeinated toothpaste. It is simple & brilliant and I hope you succeed with this.
Just a guess though.
Fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face. A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1891&dat=19620321&id=...
A classic.
But, man, one tube of this thing is roughly the LD50 for caffeine ingestion. This is definitely a "keep out of the reach of children" product.
I mean, it's not the first, is it?
Here's a kid who had the same idea last year: http://www.chicagotribune.com/bluesky/originals/ct-teen-entr...
Here's one from 2008: http://buzztoothpaste.blogspot.co.uk/
https://www.google.com/patents/US20030147817
I don't know how to read patents, so I don't know if this is a relevant patent or not.
IANAL.
If you can't live without it, why not just buy the pills and take a pill each day. https://www.amazon.com/Natrol-Caffeine-200mg-Tablets-100-Cou...
Careful, caffeine can be fatal. I'm surprised it's not regulated.
"Why do you need caffeine gum? If you want caffeine have coffee, tea, Red Bull, 5 hour energy, Monster, expresso beans, or one of the million other ways to get caffeine."
"Why do you need Red Bull? If you want caffeine have coffee, tea, 5 hour energy, Monster, expresso beans, or one of the million other ways to get caffeine."
"Why do you need tea? If you want caffeine have coffee, 5 hour energy, Monster, expresso beans, or one of the million other ways to get caffeine."
"Why do you need coffee? If you want caffeine have 5 hour energy, Monster, expresso beans, or one of the million other ways to get caffeine."
So on and so forth. Why do you need one more way to get caffeine in your system? Why not?
So, is the flavor mint-menthol? Which kind of mint?
(I personally, somewhat dislike peppermint, really dislike spearmint, but really like fennel toothpaste.)
Also, what's the expected amount of caffeine per typical dispensing? How much of that are you figuring gets absorbed during brushing?
Wondering the same thing.
He said in another comment that an average-sized 'serving' of the toothpaste contains 80mg of caffeine (roughly half the amount of a small coffee from most chains), but there's no info on how much of that is absorbed when brushing.
Apologies for this omission that in retrospect is so obvious!
[1] http://www.myfamilydentist.ca/glycerin-and-remineralization-...
It's very 90s... Cheesy. Our generation is far too cynical for that kind of message.
This toothpaste won't make your dreams come true. If anything, it will keep you up all night long and prevent you from dreaming altogether.
I do like the tagline "Get a rush while you brush." though.
Folks feeling groggy in the morning should try cutting caffeine out of their diet, not applying it directly to their gums.
So cheers to all you stimulant addicts out there for your new market option. You no longer need to ask a compounding pharmacist to do this sort of thing for you--unless, of course, there are other over-the-counter drugs you might want to take every morning, in imprecisely measured doses.
what? is this some new anti-vac kind of thing? In Denmark dentists are strongly advising against using toothpaste without fluoride.
Lena Bay of the Danish dentist school says about toothpaste without fluoride: "... if you insist on using it, then you should only use it once a day and use normal toothpaste with fluoride the rest of the time" and Ole Marker, vice president of the Danish Dental Association says that "There is a large risk of ruining your teeth [if you only use toothpaste without fluoride]"
source [in danish] http://politiken.dk/forbrugogliv/livsstil/familieliv/ECE8329...
80 mg of caffeine at 90 "servings" per tube is 7200mg.
The LD50 for caffeine is 150mg/kg, so each tube is enough to potentially kill two 20kb toddlers.
Is that a mistype or do you really measure babies in kilobits?
Did all of HN stop eating breakfast after this post? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11753668
And my understanding of the before vs after breakfast teeth-brushing debate is that it doesn't that much matter which you do: do it before, and you clear off the bacteria that have accumulated overnight before handing them a load of food to work on; do it after, and your teeth are cleaner for the next few hours instead.
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Nice site. You have only 7 trackers at the moment.
It's important to note that it's the actual brushing of teeth that does the heavy lifting. Toothpaste is pretty inconsequential.
You can also buy 20 g of caffeine in pills on amazon for around $8 compared to your 7.2 g for $15.
Why would you compare with something that is effectively the cost of sitting down for half an hour in a clean warm place with toilets and internet? (I'm assuming the cost of actual coffee at starbucks is negligible)
And yet takeaway coffee costs me the same price whether its at Starbucks or just a hole-in-the-wall that only do take-away.
Cheaper still, instant/soluble coffee is less than $0.10 / cup.
Granted, not a very enjoyable cup, but it does the trick.
People like choice.
Fry: I'm never gonna get used to the 31st century. Caffeinated bacon? Baconated grapefruit? Admiral Crunch?
But I'll probably try it.
Probably chicken.
And disappointment.
Pro tip: keep a pack of caffeinated gum in your car. Great for road trips or late nights!
You don't brush your teeth shortly after waking up every morning?
Maybe market to an industry where it is necessary for someone to be caffeinated right away after waking up (think time sensitive, life / death) and health concerns are more gray area (ie. maybe soldiers can use this during war time). edit, spacing...
I feel like caffeine has an identical mindshare as cigarettes in the '60s: Haha we know it's not great for you but everybody does it, especially business people!'.
Not trying to nock your product, it's just whatever I think of when people try to push more caffeine on me. I need more sleep, not more caffeine.
we know it's not great for youThere is a great cgp grey video on caffeine:
Don't leave this where children can find it.
If a child eats a tube of toothpaste, it's not great for them[1], but eating a significant amount of caffeinated toothpaste would most likely kill them.
This is a problem because people don't normally store and secure toothpaste the way they do bleach or pesticides, and also because this product is formulated to have an interesting and attractive taste - i.e, it presents a kind of "attractive nuisance".
Ref [1] http://www.poison.org/articles/2015-dec/toothpaste
"It is unlikely for a child to have anything beyond short-term stomach upset from eating toothpaste. In rare cases, if an excessive amount of fluorinated toothpaste is swallowed, there can be more serious problems. Fluoride can lower the amount of calcium and magnesium in the body. Toothpaste formulated to help with sensitivity contains a second ingredient – a nitrate – that can also cause more serious problems if large amounts are ingested. This is unlikely to occur from unintentional ingestions by children, especially of over-the-counter toothpaste."
I'm not saying this caffeine toothpaste is safer than fluoride containing toothpaste just that toothpaste can still cause harm. From what I've read of caffeine overdoses your suggestion of a child-proof packaging is a very good one.
A tube of toothpaste might have enough fluoride to kill 30-50 mice, but not necessarily a child. Eating a whole tube of toothpaste is excessive and you should probably seek medical attention if your child does so. The adults who took part in this study[1] should be able to replicate the experiments by eating two tubes of toothpaste.
[1] https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@te...
I'm just saying it's not an airy-fairy concern that this would be lethal, partly because of the sociology of toothpaste, and also because eating a tube surpasses the documented LD50 for adults.
Think of the warnings on acetominophen and then think this one through.
The problem with your product IMHO is that you need two toothpaste, because besides in the morning you also brush your teeth before going to bed, but you definitely don't want caffeine before you go to bed.
95% of people do not live in the US. I do not live in the US. No-one I know lives in the US.
In any case, most of HN probably lives in the US.
> In any case, most of HN probably lives in the US.
That isn't always true, but could be the reason.
The US has relatively few regulations compared to places like Europe. Few enough that California can introduce new ones that become defacto national regulations.