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Comment by ljf | Hacker News Reader

This - after leaving the city to live by the sea I hugely notice all traffic noise when I come back to London - it's just never ending. Much of London is blighted by aircraft noise too - again I never gave it much thought and believed my London garden was tranquil and calm, but in my new place I can easily go hours without being disturbed. And when a plane does fly over it's so much higher - I can't believe West London puts up with it.

That said - I now really notice the diesel smell and the fumes in central London. I used to cycle through it every day and couldn't see what the problem was, but as soon as I get off the tube I can smell the stink of smoke lorries and buses.

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> And when a plane does fly over it's so much higher - I can't believe West London puts up with it.

I lived at various times in Fulham, Putney and Richmond, and worked directly under the flight path.

What choice do most people have? All the MPs in the area are against adding a runway at Heathrow, as are all past and current mayors of London, but expanding the airport still hasn't been ruled out.

Anyone unfamiliar could look here, and see the trail of planes approaching LHR over London: https://www.flightradar24.com/51.51,-0.19/11 (flights are restricted at night, which will be about 2200-0400 UTC)

I lived in Fulham for 2 years and on the one or two days that Heathrow was shut down there was a strange unsettling silence. It would usually take a good 15 minutes to realize there wasn't a plane flying overhead every 90 seconds.

Wow... plane noise flying above you (how high?) every 90 seconds? all day!?

How can you live with that amount of noise? isn't it like way too much?

And of course I don't mean you you but in general people living there.

In Fulham, they're just under 3000ft.

In Richmond, about 1800ft.

In Hounslow, around 1000ft to under 200ft as they cross the perimeter of the airport.

Many of these planes are large jets, 747s and similar. You can usually see the next plane before the first has disappeared from view, and hear both. Between 270,000 and 700,000 people are affected by the noise, depending who you believe.

After renting a house directly under the flight path as a student, I tried never to do so again. Places under the flightpath are slightly cheaper, although anyone new to the area probably doesn't realise the extent of the problem until it's too late.

I didn't think about it for my employer though, and worked for several years directly on the approach path. On some days it wasn't possible to hold a conversation outside. I felt it led to constant stress. On a rare day with no noise (e.g. after the volcanic eruption in Iceland) everyone seemed so happy and relaxed — as if it were the first day of nice weather in spring after a month of rain.

The airport publish this map: http://myneighbourhood.bksv.com/lhr/ which shows that in many areas, there is noise (by some definition) for more than half of the day. (Make sure to tick landing approaches at the bottom.)

I used to live under the approach/departure paths to one of the runways at MSP.

Landings are for all intents and purposes silent. I could sit on the deck and watch airliners landing all day long because they are completely throttled back at that point.

Takeoff, OTOH is a whole other issue. By the time they got over my house in south Minneapolis, they were already turning away (noise abatement procedures I guess), and you got used to it after a while but it was still grating. I learned pretty quick which days to keep the windows closed :-(

> Landings are for all intents and purposes silent

What altitude were the planes?

Over Fulham (in London), it's about 3000ft and they're audible as a background rumble. They're so frequent the noise never really stops.

By Richmond at 1800ft it's not possible to have a British-volume conversation outside (Americans might be OK…). By Hounslow (down to ~200ft as they cross the airport boundary) it's uncomfortable.

Heathrow's own numbers say 700,000 Londoners have >55dBA noise from flights. (This is mostly landings, as prevailing winds mean take-off is usually away from London.)

[PDF!] http://www.heathrow.com/file_source/HeathrowNoise/Static/a_q...

I went to a college which was a five minute car ride from an airport. An airport which is used for mixed civilian/military use. So we had fighter jets flying over campus almost every day along with the regular coterie of commercial jetliners.

It was really bothersome at first but eventually your mind can block it out. Now I live next to a rail track and the train noises don't bother me at all (although they are definitely much less severe).

YMMV though. It probably helped my brain was younger then.

I remember noticing it when I first moved there but you get used to it very quickly. I was always amused at how much my family commented on it when they came to visit because I didn't really register it anymore.

Maybe Heathrow Airport could follow the example of John Wayne Airport, which is in the middle of Orange County, California. Airplanes have to land in a corkscrew pattern and take off at very sharp angles in order to minimize the noise disturbance in the surrounding suburbs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corkscrew_landing

At John Wayne the sharp turn is to avoid directly overflying built-up areas. That's not really possible at Heathrow, London is everywhere.

True - we don't have a lot of choice sadly (other than to live east) but the blight it adds to some stunning areas in London and to the south west is insane. We wouldn't put up with trains being that noisy!

If you are a bright young thing then the air in Central London matters not, neither does the noise or the ever present danger of getting run over. But, once you have seen the bright lights and spent some time working somewhere 'trendy', then the things like air quality, local community, noise, access to green space and less overcrowding really does matter, even if you are not with a family.

However, some people are more sensitive to noise (and pollution) than others. Peace and quiet is actually a nightmare to some, not something to be cherished. I would prefer to hear the wind breezing through the trees and bird song, most people would prefer to blot this out with music or TV. It does concern me that I share this planet with so many people that care so little about such things!!! What hope is there for a better world? How does anyone concentrate at the top of their faculties when their senses are just polluted with noise?

Regarding West London, this is the sweet spot for London. There is better air around Bushey Park, Richmond Park, Wimbledon Common and the bits of green in between. At the top of somewhere like Kingston Hill the air is not the same as down in the West End.

Due to prevailing wind directions, East London is not as good as the West. The transport links are not as good either, whether that be road or public transport.

Back to the plot of the article, I don't see why a hybrid variant can't be done with trucks to take them from the town centre to the ring road. In that way the engine can operate at peak efficiency on trunk roads and motorways and the electric drive train can deliver efficiencies in the city or town.

I am sure that the likes of Mercedes have considered this but there must be some economic reasons why this has not happened. I am amazed that basic stop-start technology has taken so long to happen. This is a no-brainer with no technical difficulties and an obvious saving to all. But we waited decades for that, probably phased out by lead in petrol...

> I now really notice the diesel smell and the fumes in central London.

Completely agree, the noise is pretty bad, that said you can tune it out or sound insulate your home. I find the fumes from traffic the real pain point of city living.

From what I understand ozone and particles with sizes of 2.5 microns or less (PM2.5) are a key part of it and are damaging to our bodies. Some of these particles are small enough to cross the air/blood barrier in our lungs and disrupt cell function. At a minimum you'll have increased inflammation of the respiratory passages which makes things like pollen and pet allergies wrose.

I'd recommend anyone living in a city to invest in a good air purifier from BlueAir or IQAir (if you can afford it).

It's amazing how bad particulate counts (which inflame our respiratory passages) get on certain days of the year.

Few great sites to track pollution in your area are:

London specific: http://www.londonair.org.uk

International: http://aqicn.org/city/london/

When I flew into Heathrow last year, I was amazed by how visible the pollution was- over central London, there were no clouds (there were clouds around the outskirts) but this vague, blue haze was quite noticeable.

Although compared to Shanghai, London is really clean, if you live in Shanghai you keep your windows permanently shut and run an air purifier 24/7: http://aqicn.org/city/shanghai/

> I'd recommend anyone living in a city to invest in a good air purifier from BlueAir or IQAir (if you can afford it).

Another, more environmentally friendly option: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmn7tjSNyAA

Also basil plants are a natural mosquito repellent, might not be an issue in the UK though.

Good info. I have a Peace Lily in pretty much every room except the kids which has an Areca Palm (non-toxic).

They do sod all for my pollen allergies - only an air purifier has brought it under control (anti-histamine free now).

One thing which did dismay me is just how baffled IQAir/BlueAir were when I asked if I can recycle the filter media or if they are biodegradeable.

If you are in China checkout SmartAir, clever startup which is blowing up the air purifier market (in a good way): http://smartairfilters.com/en/

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