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Comment by andrewchambers | Hacker News Reader

Can someone define "modern" in this context for me?

I think because it runs on Node 4, written in ES6, uses Koa by default instead of Express

I would call this a traditional MVC web framework written in JavaScript.

Cargo cult nomenclature is a symptom of cargo cult architecture. They're already starting to run out of 6 letter words to name web frameworks with the format of "_rails". What's next: "Frails"? "Brails"? "Derails"? "Fails"? Or just "Ails"?

Modern Javascript, perhaps? As in ES6

MVC is old and obsolete cargo cult technology.

The phrase "Modern MVC Web Framework" is lipstick on a geriatric pig, like "Modern Waterfall Software Development Paradigm".

Unless by modern they mean modern as in modernism, that began in the 1870s as a self-consciousness and irony concerning literary and social traditions. [1]

In the same sense that the art style and technology in Fallout 4 is "modern". [2]

MVC frameworks might be better described as "Modern Googie GUI Architecture". [3]

"Things seem to hang on in computing just because they work a little bit." -Alan Kay on MVC [4]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernism

[2] http://img.duniaku.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Fallout-4-...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googie_architecture

[4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7755759

When I hear the Facebook-React people talk about "MVC", it seems like their experience of the term is from Native-UI frameworks, especially those with active Views that call themselves "MVC". Then we have "Javascript MVC" frameworks like Angular, which have "bindings" and this makes them MVC. Then I think about the Server-side web programmers (i.e. Rails) which are also "MVC" that render the whole response for a request.. the view is often just a template. This is also "MVC". Basically the term has completely lost it's meaning at this point.. It's simply a pejorative term now, because we don't take the time to name/reveal the particular things we don't like about certain frameworks, we just call them MVC.

If it's obsolete, what should replace it?

Here's one idea: http://cycle.js.org/model-view-intent.html

It's not just about replacing the controller, which nobody understands or agrees on [1] -- it's about getting away from the idea that you can oversimplify user interface architecture down to a holy trinity of just three elemental concepts.

You could just as well ask "If Earth, Wind and Fire [2] are obsolete, what replaces them?"

There's more to modern chemistry than Earth, Wind and Electricity.

[1] http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WhatsaControllerAnyway

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_element

With Cycle MVI can be just a guide for getting started. (More pejoratively, a crutch.) I regularly find the intent()-model() interface getting too verbose and boilerplatey so I just munge the two pure functions together into one. So far it's made sense to keep view() separate, however.

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