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Comment by dreamdu5t | Hacker News Reader

"Work on something that matters to you more than money."

This is incredibly naive. It would be condescending too if the author hadn't meant otherwise. People are forced to work for money - they don't want to!

I don't want to care about money. I want to care about other things, but unfortunately I have to eat, sleep inside shelter, bathe, save for retirement, etc.

I literally have enough savings to last 4 months before being homeless. How am I supposed to go make make music and work on my own programming language, with the understanding that I'll be destitute in a matter of months? Hearing shit like "just do what you love" is insulting. Incredibly insulting.

Yeah Mr. O'Reilly? Why don't you send me a big fat check so I can work on what matters. Not everything that matters to people is something they can build a huge business out of.

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I can always spot someone who has amassed so much money that they're not worried about it. They say things like, "Follow your passion and don't worry about money."

> Money is like gas in the car — you need to pay attention or you’ll end up on the side of the road — but a well-lived life is not a tour of gas stations!

See, he acknowledges the importance of money. But once your basic needs are met, you can start discovering what matters to you. Music and creating your programming language are just to points in a huge space of things you could potentially enjoy. There are many jobs that, even though they don't sound sexy, allow you to explore this space and gravitate to things you like. The choice is not always between being a slave or dying from starvation.

You certainly have a point, but it can also be said there is a lot that can be done to increase the ability to work on what matters to an individual by reducing outgoings and cutting working hours.

The truth however is that many people don't have a "what matters", a single burning passion or idea. Most want a comfortable life in which they can convince themselves that they are ahead of their peers and they don't lack for anything important. It is incredibly sad to see how much crap some people deal with at work to have these lifestyles.

What matters to me? A very small number of people, a lot of solitude and a lot of learning and playing with my mind. To do this I have a job at a very small company with a custom contract to work just four days a week - for this I have taken a cut in pay of course. As a by-product there are lots of things I can't afford that my "peers" can but the funny thing is they are insistent they can't afford the time to learn the piano or take the long weekend to see their dying parents, they haven't visited the local national parks or escaped the intensive weekend shopping.

> What matters to me? A very small number of people, a lot of solitude and a lot of learning and playing with my mind. To do this I have a job at a very small company with a custom contract to work just four days a week - for this I have taken a cut in pay of course.

That is interesting, and something I would want to explore in the future (I am currently a college senior). How did you manage to convince your company to do that?

A charitable interpretation of what he said is that if you have to spend your days working to earn a living anyway, try to find or make a job that delivers a fulfillment beyond just money. I'm a big believer in making the job you want. Build up a reputation for getting things done, and then nudge the organisation to assign you the work you want to do that also benefits them.

O'Reilly is addressing the community of people who are reading his company's books and reading his blog because they intend to create something. He's suggesting that they work on stuff "that matters".

I can think of no reason to believe he is intending this advice to apply to every person on the planet, or you in particular.

Have patience. Your situation will not always be so bleak. The time will come when you can focus more on meaningful work. Just be ready for it when it comes -- Don't get trapped by a personal burn rate that needs a 150K salary, when you could really live on half that.

> when you could really live on half that.

Or even substantially less than half of that.

Doing what you love / care about, at least partially, while still making a living is an interesting task. Also a highly nontrivial one unless/until you've already made a few millions.

One way to do this is instead of watching TV, playing WoW, etc, that is, instead of pleasant but exclusively consumer activities. Seen at this angle, the advice does not look all that bad.

This is not unlike having kids. You don't quit work to have kids; to the contrary, you work harder to give the kids a head start (nice toys, good books, advanced kindergarten). You don't stop working for money, but you spend the money for what you love more than money. If this works for your child, it could also work for your brainchild (which is often less demanding, too).

Not everybody's passions are monetizable and produce items or services desired by a market. One cannot make a living making esoteric GIF art. No amount of staying up late and working hard makes this true.

It's not like I choose to watch TV at night instead of building some dream lifestyle business.

How would you propose I monetize creating my own free open-source programming language? "Just don't play WoW" doesn't make sense in these scenarios. Contrast that with the passion of "publishing books". Starting a publishing company would be an obvious choice.

I think you define passion too narrowly. It's hard to monetize your passion if the only thing you enjoy is drawing pumpkins with charcoal on the walls of 18th century buildings.

But flexibility helps. You could, for example, make a living working on V8 or SpiderMonkey, and work on your programming language as a hobby.

>How would you propose I monetize creating my own free open-source programming language?

Forget it, work for the man, save your money, retire young, then work as much as you want on your GIF art syntax programming language.

Find a job that doesn't intrude on your life outside the office, if you can't directly monetize your passions.

I work a corporate gig, getting paid below what many on this forum might consider appropriate, because I live in an affordable area, near family and friends, and the job doesn't ask anything of me after my 8 hours are done.

That last part is most important. The things that I was passionate about when programming was my life (I got a bit burnt out), were not things I could have gotten a job doing (easily) without a graduate degree, something that I found I didn't have the emotional fortitude to get through. So I did them as hobbies after hours. Now, programming isn't a passion of mine so much. I'm rediscovering old interests (languages, martial arts, travel, art) that had fallen by the wayside.

When I leave work at 4 (most days), I go do whatever the hell I want. Now, if you're not single and childless like me, this isn't as easy to do. But if you are, it's pretty much trivial. Pick your priorities, and do them. Right now, for me, it's fitness first (most days). I go for a run or cycling, then go to a fight gym for a couple hours. It's a lot more than is needed just to stay healthy, and more than I'll be doing in a few more months, but I enjoy doing it. I'm traveling to Italy, so I'm learning Italian. This is easy to do with just my downtime. I use Memrise and Duolingo, this weekend I'll be looking into Italian podcasts to listen to on my commutes.

You may not be able to make a living performing music, but are you good enough to get hired out for gigs? I have several coworkers that play instruments in bands in this area. They don't get a lot for their gigs, but it's more than nothing and covers the cost of their equipment and lets them do what they really want, perform.

Plenty of people (based on Show HN posts) seem to have made their programming languages without monetizing them. It may require a time sacrifice (you can't go out with your friends most weeknights, because the language is your "second job"), but it can be done.

I fully agree. "Do what you love" sounds like survivor bias.

>> "Work on something that matters to you more than money."

> This is incredibly naive.

It is incredibly challenging - given the economic and social constraints of 'modern' life.

The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary.

-- Fred Wilson (also credited to Nassim Taleb)

As with most epigrams this is cute, pithy, unintentionally smug, and conveys no actionable information.

Sure it does. Very large lists of obvious action items flow naturally from the precept of reducing one's dependence on income flow.

As an example, at the top of that list would be relocating to a lower cost area. Residing in NYC/SF/BOS/TOK/LON is a choice that forces one onto the hamster wheel.

> As an example, at the top of that list would be relocating to a lower cost area. Residing in NYC/SF/BOS/TOK/LON is a choice that forces one onto the hamster wheel.

This cannot be emphasized enough. There are lots of good jobs and good areas to live that will not force you to spend absurd amounts on small rental properties, let alone half-million dollar or more homes. A lot of middle America is actually pretty nice to live in, and near the big cities that have the culture people might want, while costing a fraction of what NYC or SF cost. And the salaries aren't that much lower. You may have a hard time getting to six-figures in some of these places, but your $80k a year salary will go a lot further than $150k in SF.

And the jobs offer a great deal for having a lifestyle that isn't centered on work, in my experience. Leaving at 4 is not frowned upon, by most, and you get essentially a second day to spend doing what you want, or with the family.

I am currently homeless and have been for closing in on four years. I have 23 cents to my name today and will not be eating today. But I work on things that matter to me, while also trying to solve my financial problems and the health problems they are rooted in.

Your rant sounds incredibly petty and insulting to me. You seem to be confusing momentary pleasure for love. They are not the same thing.

"Just do what you love, even if that means being starving and homeless." isn't what Tim O'Reilly is saying.

I am not starving and homeless in order to do what I love. I have a serious medical condition. I am getting myself well. Getting well matters. I don't have to like it. I have saved an estimated $3 million dollars in care by getting myself healthier. I wish there were easier answers.

I am just saying: You have 4 months of savings in the bank and are whining about how you can't afford to pursue your music. I am pursuing better health, in spite of the entire world seemingly being against me.

Being further dismissed by your reply to me doesn't make me think any better of your initial comment.

I must have misinterpreted your reply. If you're homeless and hungry because of health problems instead of choosing to do what you love, then why did you even bring that up but to seek sympathy?You're the one who is whining, and seemingly trying to "one up" me and belittle my situation by demonstrating that you have it worse.

I did see your "fuck off" before you removed it.

Ironic that you would be so openly ugly to someone worse off than you after starting your argument from a place of accusing O'Reilly of being overprivileged and stating he should give you a big check so you can work on things that "matter" -- to you and no one else at all.

But it also isn't surprising.

I'm done here.

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