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>their thing is a waste of time

This is incorrect. GNOME users would not consider it a waste of time, just like KDE users would not consider it a waste of time for someone to do work on KDE, or Mac users would not consider it a waste of time to work on macOS, etc. Please consider that your suggestion can be considered rude, you are simply not the target audience.

In general, open source doesn't work like this. These are volunteers, nobody can really tell them to go work on something else, because they work on what they feel like, which may or may not be seeking the approval of people like you. If you want to find another project that seeks your approval, that's great, go do that, let us know about it later and maybe I'll even try it out. If your goal is to harass open source developers until they quit open source, then please stop doing that, that would be making it worse for everyone.

Yes, I would agree that a lot of GNOME developers still view that as a design goal. But not all do, and even so, having less configurability doesn't mean less features. If you ask me, practically speaking, what it has meant is that there is a larger collection of smaller apps to choose from. So if the app you want lacks a configuration option, you might be better served by trying to find a different app that just works the way you want the first time.

>You have not argued in good faith.

That's not correct, as a show of good faith I've explicitly asked for specific details on what the complaint is. I can't help you if you don't provide those details. If it seems I haven't done that, I apologize, that was not my intention. I'll try to be clearer next time. Let me know if there's anything specific you want me to clear up.

I completely disagree, I'm using GNOME on a laptop from 2008 now. It's working fine for me. I did tweak it a little bit however.

Thank you for doing that, it's really fortunate that you are, but please understand that not all of your coworkers do the same thing. I think it would be nice if they did, but currently they do not.

I don't understand what you're trying to discourage, what you're saying doesn't follow. That has nothing to do with "the GNOME way" and is mostly related to the decisions made by Canonical, who decided to make their own desktop, and then dropped it in favor of GNOME. Asking the GNOME people to give up isn't going to make it viable for Ubuntu to develop their own desktop again that is more to your liking. Your issue is with them, not with GNOME. And according to them, you seem to have it exactly backwards: it was Unity that was not able to compete on merits, so it was dropped in favor of GNOME.

But anyway it sounds like you just fixed that by using a different distro, you can even just suggest the KDE or LXDE spins of Ubuntu. Those still exist, and it's not hard to use them. If you're already using them then it's very hard for me to see what your actual complaint is or what you're trying to discourage. It's true you're free to express what you want, but please consider that what you're expressing may not be something that was done with having the full information. I've noticed there is a lot of confusion about what GNOME is and a lot of people seem to mix it up and equate it with Ubuntu or Red Hat or something, which is understandable, but it's not true. I'm only here to explain why.

And just to make it painfully clear: it is already hard enough to maintain open source and fix all the issues and improve the quality of the current interfaces, without people constantly demanding that open source maintainers give up and stop fixing bugs. If you want to get things fixed, you really don't need to do this.

I don't understand what the issue here is or what you want me to learn, those seem to all be bugs that were already fixed. If there are additional unfixed problems that others aren't aware of, and you're not making it up, then please mention those, and maybe I can help you get them reported.

The javascript is used mostly to drive the shell GUI, it shouldn't be taking seconds off all your mouse clicks. If there is really bad slowness, you should consider reporting that as a bug, it may not be the javascript that's at fault. The performance shouldn't be any worse than a typical lightweight web app running in firefox. That is of course if you ever end up using GNOME again for whatever reason.

I don't understand why you have to wonder what it's doing, the javascript is all self-contained and hosted locally. It's not using npm or anything like that. And the extensions are pretty much the same as any other app you use that supports plugins.

Again I'm not sure where you got that, I have not heard any Red Hat or Fedora developers say that's the focus. In fact if you follow GNOME development, there are various other directions that people are pulling in. It might be the case coincidentally for some things, but that could be yet another one of those happy afterthoughts.

I figured you would post that. I have heard no actual KDE developers saying that's a problem. They don't use Qt LTS. The "drama" there seems to be mostly confined to unrelated internet forums.

As for your posts about C, I can give a personal anecdote: I would agree with those sentiments, C has a lot of really bad problems as a language. But yet, I still write it a lot more often than C++. So It's not as simple as you're making it out to be. Also I checked some of those slides and I wouldn't describe anything there as a "flame war."

>Everything that implies taking sides is politics, no matter what.

If you really want to look at things that way, you could, but this seems to not be strictly true. Just because there is taking sides does not mean there has to be fighting or politics.

Others may find that pushing towards server-side window decoration is annoying and imposing, so this is unfortunately an area where not everyone can be happy. In any case you may be interested to try a patch: https://github.com/lah7/gtk3-classic

That's just my personal observation, I haven't seen many unfocused airings of grievances that ended in positive change. Sure there are knowledgeable people here, but they may not always be speaking within their area of expertise; it helps to direct it at someone who is within that area of expertise, in the case of HN, that area is startups.

I've seen plenty of complaints about Amazon here go unanswered. Amazon is a pretty big company, I'm guessing you don't know everything about it and may not be the right person to ask about many things. If I had a question, I'd definitely ask you if it was something you were an expert in, but I don't know what that is because you didn't say.

If you have something you want me to understand, please explain. I'm happy to listen to what you have to say. Like everyone else, I'm not perfect, sometimes I don't understand things and I need some help from people like you.

I honestly haven't seen any real license drama about that for like 10 years now. Qt and GTK are (mostly) the same license.

Also I really wouldn't say that C and C++ are equivalent to political parties, that's like saying the same thing about coke and pepsi.

Sure, but that shouldn't really matter to an ordinary Fedora user, at least not to the ones I've heard from.

No, not at all. If you do ever use this and you develop an opinion on it, feel free to share.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying or what the point of your bashing is. GNOME and KDE and XFCE and whatnot are not political parties and are not opposed to each other. They're not really even close to being that, they're open source projects that collaborate on a sizable amount of things. If you believe there is a better way to do something then just contribute to another desktop. The existence of GNOME doesn't prevent you from doing that and isn't detrimental to it, especially when you consider that the cost of switching to another open source desktop is a big fat $0. Please don't unnecessarily politicize things, one of the benefits here is that you explicitly don't have to do that.

To put it another way: maybe some specific mode of "Linux gaining ground on desktops" with "configurability and techniness" is your goal, but people working on any given desktop (including GNOME) may not share that goal in the same way you do, and it doesn't make any sense to expect them to.

I mean in cases where someone just copy and pastes something without making any effort to match the style, or in cases where they can't explain what a piece of code does or how they came up with it. You should be able to spot those very easily in code review. If somebody is trying to fix up the naming schemes to avoid being detected and for whatever reason is able to explain the code perfectly, then I'd imagine that person would probably be doing the same bad things regardless of using copilot -- it's not like it's hard to search stackoverflow and github for code snippets.

Could you please explain specifically what one or more of these effects is? I may be able to offer suggestions on how to mitigate it. When I was talking about using something else I was specifically referring to the article, which is talking about using a different window manager, and makes a good case for switching, and may even be able to help you deal with some of those effects. I assume you agree with the article, if not then I don't understand because it seems odd to me to single out this one passing mention in a paragraph that otherwise goes against what was just said, so please elaborate if you can.

Well there you go, you switched to a Mac :)

For me personally I find the endless "Linux desktop wars" to be disappointing. It doesn't matter, this stuff is open source, if you really want it to be fixed then just go write a patch. But in my experience most people will just take a few minutes to switch to one of the many alternatives.

I'm just relaying what other people have told me, these type of forums are full of uninformed comments, and are not a good place to solicit feedback. You could hope that maybe an Apple engineer would read it but they probably won't. You would have better luck sending them feedback through their official channels, where you know they will read it. If you're giving feedback to a YC startup then this would be a good place, but otherwise not so much.

>According to you, I should not criticize software that does not meet my needs

I have not said that, I just asked you for your specific criticisms.

Can you elaborate? Is there something particular that you need that doesn't work on an RPi? If it turns out to be a small fix, then ultimately you may end up caring a lot less than you think.

I'm not accusing anyone of that and I'm not misquoting, please stop with this hostility. In my experience, people are happy to switch when it suits them. By "no features" I was referring to those basic features. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I also didn't see any constructive criticism, if you have any specific suggestions for positive change you'd like to make, then please make them. I'm all ears. But for the record, if you'd like to get involved in development, places like HN and reddit are generally not a good place to do it. The people who are most likely to listen to requests don't visit here.

I can't say for sure what the deal is with GTK3, but GTK4 apps are GPU accelerated and should be faster. Though it may come at a cost of using more GPU memory, depending on the app.

I find it pretty disappointing that these type of articles and the resulting comments like yours often can't seem to praise something like IceWM or AwesomeWM without also bashing GNOME or XFCE or something else because of "bloat." Who cares? Do you even care? I don't think you do, you'll just delete that desktop and move on and use whatever you want, and that's the whole point.

Also, your characterization of GNOME's rationale is totally wrong. The goal was never to make a desktop with no features, it was more to make a desktop that is streamlined towards certain functionality. If that's not for you, then use a desktop that's more streamlined towards what you want. There's plenty to choose from. What is the real problem?

Edit: I also want to address another common misconception that I see -- the GNOME Foundation does not direct development in a top down fashion and does not impose any rationale on the project. If some feature was removed, it was probably because an individual volunteer working on it decided that it wasn't worth spending time on that anymore, possibly because the need was better filled by a different project.

If you actually want a paid service, there are plagiarism detectors like Fossa and Codequiry. Although in my opinion, code review should be enough to catch any "accidental" incidents of plagiarism, the differences in writing style should make it very obvious when the employee has copied something. That of course probably won't apply if you suspect the employee is intentionally changing it around to obfuscate the origin of the code, but it seems that wouldn't be the case if they were just committing the output straight from a neural net. But automated scanners probably won't be able to catch those well either -- the way to catch that would be to make them do pair programming a lot.

I don't understand why anyone has an issue with that. You know what else can copy and paste code all the time? Humans. But we have various ways of stopping employees who copy and paste code from stackoverflow and github without checking the license, so it's the same thing if you use one of these tools. There's nothing new I can see here to be upset about.

This would be a lot more interesting if it showed the various GPT-3 experiments at generating music and used that as a point of comparison.

Great news, I remember you talking about this before so I'm glad to hear this was started.

That's true to an extent, but the backend changes should make it more feasible to refactor the UI or to build alternative UIs with other feature sets.