zpk

The same company that has a press release that they do not wage collude:

"Not everybody took part in the no-hire agreement: last week, Facebook's Sheryl Sandberg said the social network rebuffed Google's approaches."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/03/30/tech_giants_fail_to_...

Is the same guy pushing for visas to drive down wages:

"Fwd.us, a group founded in part by Facebook’s Mark Zuckerberg, has pushed for immigration reform. Joe Green, another Fwd.us founder, lambasted current law regarding the cap structure of high-skill visas in an email to TechCrunch, calling the current set of regulations “dysfunctional.” "

I guess being a prick knows no bounds.

Don't be evil,...except when it comes to hiring & labor practices.

I am on year 13 of their fantasy sports site. I'm going to know what works and what doesn't. From applets to flash to mobile....Not to be a jerk, but do you? Otherwise don't have this conversation with me.

These idiots keep screwing with their products. Thank god Yahoo is now only a secondary email for me. They removed tabs, the tabs were a great convenience. They fubared their fantasy sports site, recently added back the white theme, amidst a massive backlash.

I just don't get it, why mess with all this so damn often, and piss users off....

Anyone know if Toptal is legitimate? They advertise all over LinkedIn. I contacted them and it seems like they don't really have a personal approach or connection to the dev talent.

I need to slot myself in on a calendar for a skype call, and no reply to my questions? I can't find any reviews on them either.

" All it does is cause the company to move operations offshore."

If this worked, then we wouldn't be having this visa discussion.

True, but they are related though. Both worlds don't happen in a bubble, eventually the consequences affect all of us here. We have one part of the nation axing millions of people without any intention/need to hire again, and another set saying they are in dire need of employees. Logically the companies would look at the existing labor pool, and try investing in training for the most capable of that set whether its 10% 20% or even 2% of that pool.

However none of that is happening. Companies do not want to do that of course, and why would they? The government subsidizes the training through college. The loans are unaffordable, and the returns are not even there for anyone other than the brightest/most capable (however that's scored) 20%. Companies don't care, they aren't on the hook for those costs. Now that that pool is nearly exhausted, companies are lobbying Congress for immigration reform that will bring cheaper younger talent over. Companies assume minimal risk in the current format. And by forcing the # of the visas up, they can suppress wages, there was an article even on IT wages last week about that. This current format is bad for US Citizens, Green Card Holders, and a substantial set of Visa Holders as well.

They spent 30 days on logos meanwhile butchered their sports site. So many errors and so many inconsistencies, you can't even look at player game logs anymore. One page is all in black, while others have the old look(better) in white.

And the kicker is that they role it out a 2 weeks before fantasy football starts. You cannot even move to another site in time.

All this time spent on self promotion, and so little spent on execution.

I am a frustrated consumer, and all I get are logos for 30 days....who gives a blank.

Anecdotal evidence, and looking at outliers like Standford grads (not even 15yr vets mind you) should be tossed aside.

Neither represent the overall technology picture. Wages have stagnated, so "Boo, got to take a pay cut" won't happen, but you may not get a raise for 1-2-3 years which in effect is a pay cut.

Bezos has a halo, but I don't believe in angels.

For journalism to be truth, it must remain independent.

Personal experience...while I am sure you felt this way it has no legs in this argument. I can provide mine and other anecdotal evidence on the contrary.

Whether a person can leave the job or not with their visa still doesn't address the overall premise that visas suppress wage growth.

At the very minimum these articles site a study, and there are more than 1.

And what about NPR? You should read that, and put your bias aside.

What you think and feel I am sure is valid, but has little value in the context of the overall immigration problem and argument.

I still don't see how you know Google pays above or at market rate.

I sat there point by point with articles on why this would lead to lower wages, startup or body shop or google, and you come back with 4 lines. I'm not going to defend my points again until I see some actual evidence to refute my position.

Can you give me the citation where "there are companies like Google which don't hire foreign workers for the sake of underpaying them"

Can you show me just one article where the H1b's are above a prevailing wage? Or that is the actualy truth?

Not by massive corporations or their ceos.

"that's not an act created by Google"

No, they just wrote the law to:

" increased supply of high-quality workers pushes wages downward a bit"

That's whats in Congress today.

Ah true, but the underlying effect will be the same.

Another newspaper owned by a corporation. I'm sure this is going to end well.

Can't wait for it to become another CNBC infomercial.

Here everyone, this is the second "loudest guy in the room".

I love when people come into a discussion with the presupposition that others just need to shout the loudest, and/or are just emotional for their beliefs. I love they present no facts, no counter evidence, other than their hubris and relative sense of superiority when they are, most likely, at the median level of intelligence in a given demographic such as this forum.

Let me counter your points, but I will do my best to keep it short. Mainly because I've done my research, and I don't feel like having a forum argument with someone that obviously thinks they are superior with their labeling people like me...the "loudest in the room".

1. "They're paid very handsomely for their work"

Can you show me the article where H1B's are paid 10%/20% or more over the prevailing market rate of their greencard holder/American peers for a given title at a given company? I'd love to read that. Visas are for skilled labor shortages. We all know in economics 101 when demand exceeds supply, prices go UP...not even or down, but UP. We are in agreement or not there?

In the meanwhile let me offer the first article to refute the exact argument of why companies say they need H1B's in the first place.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/01/study-stem-immigrants-are-n...

Let me offer a second, as I feel generous: http://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2013/07/24/the-cas...

Hello potatolicious, in a field of obvious shortage, wages are FLAT, did you catch that? FLAT. That doesn't sound "very handsomely" to me.

2. Now on to your second point "In what ways do the business models of Wipro, Tata, and Infosys resemble what is being described in the blog post, though?"

The discussion here is clearly based on "kenjagi And there you have a step-by-step blueprint on how to undermine the efforts of local talent pools to stand out in favor of saving tens"

Kenjagi, I wish I could've put the way you did. Brilliant, you got 40 comments from one sentence, that's what truth brings.

We have an immigration system with endemic issues around fraud. Do we need an article to further prove that. Here's the first one off Google, I didn't read it, I know it'll confirm my argument here. I can send you 40 more if you like. Just send me one where the H1Bs are paid so generously over the local talent due to shortages.

http://businesstoday.intoday.in/story/us-senator-introduces-...

So we have a system that's broken, in any normal circumstance this would force a state/city/or country to investigate the issue, and possibly freeze the program. Most definitely not increase the program, as what we have currently happening, but then again Google/Microsoft/Apple/Amazon are writing the laws. Let's try a simple question, do Google/Microsoft/Apple/Amazon want to pay more for labor? Yes or No? Let me know what you think. I'm expecting yes, from your comments.

"resemble what is being described in the blog post" If you don't think this suppresses wages for US citizens, green card holders, and Visa workers, startup or not, you have no idea how labor markets work.

Visas, suppress wages for the people here and the people that come here. We are in the same boat.

I don't expect a reply, maybe you will talk down to me again, I don't know. In the outside chance I do get a reply with refuting evidence, I will gladly bring in the other 40 or so articles further supporting my case. I can bring UE data in, but that would rather shatter any argument you have left. I'll bring that last.

"The main problem is that nearly everyone involved in the discussion has only seen one side"

Don't assume what I know and what I don't know, because you are dead wrong. I've been researching this for the past year.

You summed it up, I can't agree more. Not to mention the next STEM bill was written by the companies themselves.

Policies for people, written by corporations. Clearly this is a good thing for us long term.

No its not idiotic, its the truth. There's an entire business model based on the margin. Maybe you heard of one of those companies, Wipro much, Tata much, Infosys much?

"But they are lucky to be allowed to work 80-100 hours a week in order to keep their job and visa status, and to pack up the next day if they get fired."

Wow so off base its funny, that's the blanking problem.

This job aside, ageism is 100% prevalent in our industry.

Visa program has been hijacked and have subverted the career engineer.

I hear ya...more and more, I think our industry needs to unionize.

I hate the fact you have to say that...it pisses me off to hear this. I was lucky I had minimal loans, and school was 1/2 the cost. If I can give a word of advice, spend less on car #1 and attack that loan, pay it off. Get to 0 debt.

Hey right over here everyone!!! This is called ageism.

If you write code and you are over 35, you are toast. Yes even you the "above average coder"...done and done.

Now wait till that immigration bill passes, make 150k? GOOD ___ing BYE.

Nothing like the CEO's of the top tech firms saying Americans are unfit for the job, lets bring in the younger cheaper labor. Still waiting to see the boatload of 35+ H1B's at top tier salaries to come in, since frankly there are no 35+ American developers ready to do the job. Free trade or we die. Hey Manufacturing, how lucky are you that NAFTA was passed 20 years ago?

The answer is yes, and no. Its the talent that costs money, and deservedly so. If you can land that cheaper then go for it. Check out Robert Rodriguez too, he makes movies for 1/3 the typical Hollywood cost...he gives solid advice on learning the craft.

Stats, Coursera+hadoop OR

Mobile java+droid / IOS OR

Rapid Web Django+Python or ROR+Ruby

Pick a vertical, then a technology and do a project.

And its full of fraud...at this point these companies should be banned, its highly unethical.

"then allocate any remaining H1-Bs for consultancy agencies from India" The idea of companies eliminating a source of relatively cheap labor is unheard of, not gonna happen. While I agree with your statement, this is the crux of the problem, and why I am against 20k increase in STEM visas. Its bad for every worker, US citizen, Green Card Holder, and Visa alike in this country.