HNHacker News
TopNewBestAskShowJobs

wyvern

16 karma · joined April 12, 2009

submissionscomments
wyvern··on Top 10 reasons to have a job
It's important to compare like against like. There's a bias in favor of startups because the relative positions are different; he's comparing being the owner of one against being an entry- or mid-level employee in the other.

Working for a company can be good if you do it right. The issue is that, in order for it to still be worth it to come in to work after about 6 months, you need to become someone's protege and get beneficial consideration regarding project allocation, career development, and responsibilities. Much of whether or not this happens is based on luck, not performance or even talent, so it usually takes 3-5 rounds before getting it to work. Most people conclude after 1-2 rounds that the game is just rigged against them and that jobs suck.

wyvern··on Ask HN: In this situation, what's a fair equity share?
I didn't know this. This seems like a much fairer arrangement than accepting a low number on the premise that other people might needs points. I have a year's protection against employee-grant dilutions (none against investor dilution, obviously) but I'd give that up for a higher share.

However, I don't think I can suggest the CEO change how he runs his company.

wyvern··on Ask HN: In this situation, what's a fair equity share?
Situation: so-so. 4 jobs in 4 years, but good performance/references, obvious talent that comes across in an interview. Sour notes are that I have an unfinished graduate degree (left academia for Wall St) and was laid off and unemployed for 5 months in 2008 because of health problems. Because I've been working for deferred cash for a while, I don't have a lot of savings. Once my back pay comes through, though, I'll be on better ground, but right now I wouldn't want to be out in the cold. Also, I really like the other founders and the work, so leaving lightly might be a dumb decision.
wyvern··on Ask HN: In this situation, what's a fair equity share?
Thanks.

Should I try to line up a job before negotiating?

wyvern··on Ask HN: In this situation, what's a fair equity share?
My plan is to wait until we're ready to formally incorporate before I raise the issue, because I'll have a better sense of what the numbers mean. I'm sure there were external people given equity (legal counsel, etc.) so it's premature to judge what's a fair share.
wyvern··on Ask HN: In this situation, what's a fair equity share?
For example if they worked twice as long as you and they took twice the risk you did then it would be difficult for you to justify more than a 1/9 stake.

That seems about right. I figure I'm worth about 9-10% of the work up to now, considering time spent and what we'd command on the market. That number needs to be docked according to the pool reserved for future employees, and raised if we go longer without salaries. There are enough variables that I'm not aware of, so I don't know what fair is although I have a general sense of the range.

A board seat is probably out of the question at this point but I'd recommend you negotiate for the same class of shares and vesting/acceleration options that your co-founders get.

Why is a board seat out of the question? Should I want one? I'm really naive about this question, and don't even know if I necessarily want one. What are the benefits and drawbacks?

wyvern··on Ask HN: In this situation, what's a fair equity share?
I figured the deal was fair because I thought salaries would be coming in imminently, and that I'd only be putting a few grand on the line. That turned out not to be the case.

In truth, I don't know what fair is, because I don't see the whole picture: who else will get equity in the future, what does the option pool look like, etc.?

wyvern··on Ask HN: In this situation, what's a fair equity share?
The other founders have deferred salary as well.

Obviously, no one has to renegotiate anything, but I'm asking what's fair. I can't evaluate my own number because I don't know what's happening at the bigger picture. If 30 programmers more skilled than I am are hired tomorrow, I'm probably getting a fair share. If some post-money marketing VP gets, say, 8%, I'm going to ask for a raise to at least that level or quit.

wyvern··on Ask HN: In this situation, what's a fair equity share?
<<Consider these things:

How much did the original founders spend both in time and in money before you came along.

* How much have /you/ spent in relation to that?

* How affected was the outcome of the business by your presence, did you accelerate the growth, did you take it the extra step, can they survive without you etc.>>

I've done this math, valuing time at the market rate. I come out as about a 10% contributor, but they obviously can't give me 10%, since there need to be points for the option pool.

I was offered 2%, which seemed really low, but I was told that this was because the CEO wanted to conserve points for future hiring. I was also told the low number was because I wasn't relevant to getting the first round of funding (which appeared to be imminent). However, funding came later, at a time when I am relevant, and with 7 months on the line, I don't think this is enough, unless a large number of programmers much better than I am are hired (and they mentor me).

wyvern··on Ask HN: In this situation, what's a fair equity share?
I disagree, because I've put 7 months of opportunity cost on the line, which is about $60k, so I definitely feel entitled to the trappings of founderdom. I'd almost certainly leave if I found out that a post-money marketing guy got more equity than I did.