whiskeyjack

API + API + dotCloud = pretty cool little site.

I resepectfully disagree. My company has two PSGI Dancer apps running mission critical elements. They're "new" but they're absolutely production ready. Plack/PSGI has been embraced by almost everyone.

I'm REALLY looking forward to playing with DotCloud.

Plack/PSGI is not "cutting edge". It's the way to do it now, not tomorrow. You do Miyagawa a disservice implying he's pumping his own code.

I switched to DDG about 3 months ago. If nothing else, the bang syntax is a huge win for me. Among my favs are !cpan !jquery !js !perldoc !php. Makes looking stuff up nice and quick.

PHP was originally a layer over Perl. It's in the first paragraph of the history.

It doesn't NOW have anything to do with Perl... but it's pretty easy to see some of that history in the code.

Again. Put up or shut up. Show the stealing or retract the comment.

This kind of behaviour is an embarassment to the community. It's poison.

Move along. If you claim there's stealing of code, prove it and show it. Otherwise, save this crap. You like Mojolicious. Fine. Go do that. The Dancer crew will continue on it's way. It affects you not at all.

I had investigated Mojolicious but this kind of attitude from you and from it's creator have long kept me out of that community. Yes, the channel can have people who are helpful, but bile begets bile and if you're an example of the Mojolicious community, I want no part of it.

A fellow Perl hacker would recall that there's more than one way to do it. And the Mojolicious internals don't look like the Dancer internals.

Seriously guy? This hostility towards Dancer is silly.

The thing is, savvy folk know it's Perl and not PERL and regardless of your work, it indicates a lack of knowledge of the community.

Slight misunderstanding. It's a PHP webapp that is an ad server. Not a web server. Having seen the codebase... it's evil.

Lots of portuguese as well as many many other nationalities here. We even have a little portugal. You'd be fine here.

Aren't things like this getting just a little tired and old?

You want readable Perl?

1) Go look at some better known modules on CPAN

2) Look at answers to questions on http://perlmonks.org

3) Read Effective Perl, 2ed

4) Check out chromatic's Modern Perl book ( free online in draft form at http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2010/06/modern-perl-the-bo... )

Nifty. Always glad to see cross-pollination in the Ruby/Python/Perl world.

I'll start this with "I'm a Perl programmer" but I'm not looking for a flame war. I am interested in hearing an expansion of your statements. I am going to admit I don't understand this one.

What do you mean by "Big Bang"? That Perl 6 is being developed on top of Parrot? That Perl 6 is a reinvention instead of re-iteration?

What "enormous resources" are you referring to? The Perl 6 team isn't huge and it's all volunteer with very little financial backing (only some relatively small grants from the Perl Foundation).

Which components are you referring to? Where are the "limited ability to test the compatibility of the components"? Which components? There are a lot of tests though... a truly massive test set. I'm assuming you're not referring to these.

From my understanding the "utility" is a pretty big part of what they're testing. There are folk writing Perl 6 (November wiki http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?november). The implementors are going back and forth with Larry about things. A lot of the ideas aren't new, just new in Perl.

I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from. :)

I would have liked to have seen "a lot less bad that it looks" replaces with "one would have been too many" and "we will work very hard to regain your trust". It's okay... but the public is their target audience! Simple phrases, big impact.

I'm kinda floored by the comments on the story on NPR. Even if you don't like'em, they're managing to pull off something not everyone can. I've enjoyed Pomplamoose for a while now. Glad to see they're doing well.

Then again, I guess it's just as shocking that I'm still surprised by the vitriolic tone of commenters on the internet.

Bad comparison. The point is that you interact with berkleyDB via an SQLite interface. It's just an interface layer in this case.

This is a difficult dynamic to manage and depends really heavily on the designer and programmer involved, how good they actually are and how much they credit the others expertise.

I've worked on projects at one job with a designer that was top notch. He knew and understood the medium despite having started as a print designer. As he did with print, where he learned about the pre-press process, he made sure he learned about the web, usability and understood HTML and CSS. What a joy it was to work with him. His designs were beautiful and understood usability without sacrificing appearance. He's gone on to do independant work and now makes double what I do. Good on him.

Then there's the other side. I've worked with another designer who thinks design exists in a silo, refuses to learn anything about the medium and has very firm (and misguided) ideas about usability. They see no point in involving a programmer in the design phase because the programmer is just supposed to make things work and doesn't understand design. They have learned nothing about the web and feel learning HTML or CSS dilutes their focus; any designer that does know these things is looked down upon because they're spreading the attention to far and will make a poor designer.

Programmers can make it hard on a designer, even good ones, and we shouldn't. This is the most valuable working relationship you can form in my opinion.

If you find one of the former, hold on to them like they are the only life preserver in the ocean. If one of the latter, run like hell. There are, of course, many skill/knowledge levels in between but it really makes me appreciate it when I have a good one to work with.

War Perl!

Interesting to see how the Perl community has really hopped on the bandwagon. Happy to see it.

I hate PHP with a passion but I think it's worth knowing about and I think the claim that "knowing C" makes it easy to interpret a PHP program is not a good assessment. Further, just knowning C doesn't mean you'll know the semantics of webdev... which is what PHP is all about. You get domain knowledge along with the language.

I'm also convinced that in almost every case that Ruby and Python are just fine in place of Perl... except for text processing.

Perl's regexp engine is top notch and is an extremely key part of the language in ways it just isn't in Python or Ruby, especially after the release of Perl 5.10. I don't see another language that can touch Perl there yet (feel free to correct me because I'd be interested to learn).

why not?

I work with this fellow so keep in mind there's history here between us on the subject. :)

"the language sucks" -- Is very much in the eye of the beholder. Perl works the way I think just as jQuery does. As for not being welcoming, I think you'll find perlmonks.org to be a huge welcoming community.

"it offers nothing new" -- I'm sorry, but if you already know Python or Ruby why would you switch anyhow? There's a big time investment in becoming really good at a language. No reason to switch when you have languages that can just get things done. I'm not even sure what you mean by "new". Perl is 22 years old now. Python and Ruby are both around 15. What's new here? I also find this "new" comment hilarious in light of the Python feature freeze. Things like Moose and Catalyst are new(ish) to the Perl community and they're doing great things. Further, CPAN is expanding at a huge rate, more than ever before. There's ALWAYS new stuff there.

"real world perl sucks" -- Real world code sucks period. And I do clean code. There are standards in Perl and they do evolve. You need to engage in the community a little as I think everyone should with their languages.

What is fairly obvious to me is that Python fits very well with how YOUR brain works. Perl fits very well with how MY brain works.

Just because it don't jive with you, doesn't mean it doesn't jive with others.

'Scuse me. I have a mod_perl2 handler to write.

I'm not even a big Python fan. I don't hate it. It's just not my favourite... and every language has it's warts.

I can understand the author not LIKING certain ways that Python works but I tire of philosophical differences in language design decisions being branded wrong.

I can accept that the author doesn't like a bunch of things but this annoys me:

  36 chars against 18.

Comparing languages by character count is fruitless. It's like comparing pieces of music by the number of notes or food by the number of ingredients. You have to decide where the important numeric barrier is, which is pretty arbitrary. For me, programming is more thinking that typing. It just seems like a ridiculous comparison.

Rakudo 1.0 will be out in April 2010. Already announced.

Ah. I was unaware of this. I'm a Canuck so was unfamiliar with the term.

Ken was laid off a number of months back... but he continued the HeliOS project in spite of it. (I am, obviously, not Ken. :) )

Reddit responded well to this (http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9csju/help_ken_of_hel...) but I'm hoping I can maybe raise the visibility a little more here at Hacker News.

Ken of the HeliOS project collapsed of exhaustion and dehydration the other day. He had to be taken to hospital and stay a night. The costs associated are bad for his non-profit. You can help.

The HeliOS project receives donations of money/machines, outfits them with Linux, and gives them to those in need in Austin, Texas. It's not just Linux Advocacy, it helps others. Now he could use a hand. Spread the word. Tweet #HelpHelios and help someone who's helped many others.

Worked for me using both Ctrl-C and right-click copy in Firefox in Linux.

Page seems to have to completely load before it works though.

You'll get that in a Perl Golf competition but the trend these days it towards much more readable and maintainable code. Which is why we have things like Moose (a better way to do objects).

Hardly the same thing.