ucee054

I did.

There were hundreds of developers at Siebel. There were hundreds of developers at Peoplesoft. There are hundreds of developers at Sungard. There are hundreds of developers at Oracle. There are hundreds of developers at SAP.

The difference is, unlike (in increasing order) Microsoft, Apple or Nintendo those companies don't give a shit and produce a crappy product.

Now stop changing the goalposts. You claimed that the SAAS people were whining, that they were no good, and that their stuff was easy to do, and that's why they were wrong to complain about the shitty state of entreprise software.

I showed that your claim against the SAAS people was ad-hom, and showed how entreprise software was way worse than what your average four year old has access to.

You moved the goalposts, and claimed that doesn't count because the games people are in the business of experience. So I came up with Excel, which is in the business of business, and which basically runs Wall Street. (There are many other examples, that easily trounce "entreprise" software. MS SQL is one of them.)

Now you're moving the goalposts again, to say why Excel doesn't count. It would be far more honest for you to just admit that the SAAS people are right, and that entreprise software sucks.

And it's for no other reason than that the vendors are cheap bastards who care about nothing other than making a buck.

They don't want to put the effort in to make entreprise software any good because it would cost a lot and hence lower their margins. Nothing less, and certainly nothing more.

For using it at all without tearing your hair out

The games example was just to show something that is really hard. I don't need the UI to be game quality; I'll settle for just the same quality as Excel.

And by the way, there is some unusable entreprise software out there. You seem unconcerned with the unhappiness its piss-poor UI causes for users so long as it's "efficient".

Take a look at Lotus Notes and tell me just how "efficient" it is.

The video games people set the bar. And they are shit-hot. And they produce stuff that even a 4 year old can use.

And the problems the video game people solve are more complex than your typical schlubby entreprise app. In the case of MMORPGs, infinitely more so - and they have to deal with compliance and accuracy as well, because they are dealing with stuff like credit card data.

The problem is that the entreprise software buyer is not the user, he just gets to inflict the stuff on others - a perverse incentive.

I've worked on entreprise software in more than one big-name company, and I'm embarrassed by what they ordered me to deliver. One time a friend of mine, who had to use my company's malfunctioning stuff, even phoned me up at work to curse me for it.

If you had done your homework, you'd realize that p2p has been around since the nineties, and its only successes have been some weird military-type applications, file sharing, file distribution and Skype.

So p2p is not a new, superior paradigm about to burst into the mainstream, only being held back because of Moaning Minnies like me not pushing it hard enough.

It is actually an old, tired, second-hand, inferior technology that has been failing to go mainstream for twenty years.

"Please don't argue about a tech that appears too complex it can't suit old people"

You actually have to read what I wrote.

Part 1: I explained to you how technology is deployed to suit people who can't deal with complexity: an engineer builds it into a product/service for them - making the service simple enough to use.

Part 2: I explained to you why said engineer would never use p2p for said service: because all the bandwidth is available in the centre.

You know, to make a p2p system that can even approach the ballpark performance of a centralized system, you have to deal with connection asymmetry, connection heterogeneity, overlay construction and churn tolerance. You'll have a devil of a time just deploying and testing the fucking thing, forget about development. And you still get a less performant system overall.

The tech doesn't "appear" complex, it IS complex. For Grandma to be able to use it, the poor sods in Engineering have to make it "appear" simple, which makes the complexity THEIR problem.

This is NOT something any sane engineer would want if he could avoid it by getting Grandma what she wants by using a simpler alternative. Like a central server, for example.

On another note, I thought you might find this amusing:

http://vigor.sourceforge.net/

I think the mistake you are making is that you think "most people" = you, whereas in reality "most people" = Grandma.

If you are the guy responsible for building some internet service for Grandma to use, you will always go centralized, because that's where the bandwidth is.

p2p only wins in some weird edge cases - in file sharing it's in part not to enable copyright holders to shut the system down through legal action against single points of failure.

You might be able to relay it via (someone like) me, because I get megabits per second download, but I get much less upload, so your target is in for a tedious wait.

But, if you send it via Amazon web services, you might be able to direct connect to their hosting centre near you. From there, you could get a gigabit per second over Amazon's own network to a centre near your target where he/she can download from - instantaneous.

And we're not even talking about Amazon's datacentre internal networks, where you might be able to arrange for 10 gigabits.

Centralized beats decentralized by orders of magnitude. Sorry.

Result: The internet will always be centralized. Deal with it.

So you people at Microsoft can sell the same software to the same customer multiple times.

And if it takes "innovation", by golly "innovation" will happen - even if it means putting in then taking out that stupid dancing menacing cartoon paperclip.

Wall Street thinking. How about instead of rewarding cleverness, rewarding one's contribution to the good of the , er, "game"?

Zappa obviously didn't know about engineering school ;)

"Handing" it to them would be if you didn't get equity or anything else in return.

"Because the other guy interested in the same field watches Star Wars, I'm going to change career!"

Whether you like a field is supposed to be based on whether you like the field, not how cool you find the other people in the field.

So you're not describing girls who are interested in CS, you're describing girls who want to get into a field full of cool people.

Maybe if they are intolerant to having nerds as colleagues, said girls should aim for Hollywood instead of CS

They had the same sort of social structures in the middle ages, but if you were one of Queen Brunhilde's knights, how exactly were you on top? You were utterly expendable, Brunhilde was on top.

By the way, "sexual policing" comes from sexual competition and evolutionary psychology, which comes from thinking with your ovaries instead of your brain. In much the same way idiot men's one-upmanship comes from thinking with the testicles.

The guy who goes to deliberately kill a bunch of people by bombing is probably very much not a sociopath, because a sociopath is someone who sees other people as expendable.

That matches the psychology of someone who doesn't give a shit. Which is your corporate CEO who didn't give a damn about the risks of the chemical plant.

A terrorist bomber may very well care deeply. He might be motivated by hatred. He may be motivated by vengeance. He may think his victims really have it coming to them. He may in fact be the exact opposite of a sociopath.

It's the Old Testament that's the terror religion, whether as practiced by Mohammed or by Moses or by the Crusaders.

And Moslems react when they think their religion is under attack just like Christians do. Have a look at some of the IRA types who were into butchering Irish Protestants. They were "defending" the Catholics in their minds.

It's not "kill the infidels to get into heaven". The religion is merely the language they use to frame the real motivation, which can be defensiveness, reaction, or even sheer prejudice.

And not all the bombers are loonies, by the way, not even the suicidal ones. If the official story so far is correct, the Boston two seem to be good planners with a healthy sense of self-preservation.

I sought a synonym for unparalleled for you here:

http://thesaurus.com/browse/unparalleled

But these seem to be even worse. Sorry, I tried.

If it's a location based social advertising network, meh not so much.

She probably has a Green Card or Citizenship by now, but if I recall correctly she was on an H1 visa at the time. If she lost her job for any reason, she would have had to find another employer pronto or she would have had to leave the country.

Her employer did not find it hard to ask her to work from 8am to midnight 7 days a week.