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tmansour

120 karma · joined September 24, 2018

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tmansour··on Prediction markets have an elections problem
We're trying to fix that at kalshi.com :)
tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
We don't do sports
tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
If you're for everyobody, then you're for nobody!
tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
We are perfectly allowed to be called a prediction market. That is not what I was saying in my text.

We are fully regulated by the CFTC. Our ethos has been do regulation from day 1 and we spent 3 years getting regulated before we launched a single product. Regulators are already caught up and are working with us constructively to expand this marketplace and asset class.

tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
It's 25k downside exposure limit (doesn't mean your upside is capped at 25k).

Also even if you can't hedge the exposure in its totality, it is still worth hedging a fraction of it. "Under-hedging" is a common term in commodities markets - people often want to cover a portion of their exposure and leave the rest in the hands of mother nature.

tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
+1 on this answer - there's a ton more examples here: student loans, climate policy, hurricanes, inflation, etc.
tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
LedgerX team is more tech savvy and higher execution team. We considered all options and LedgerX was the superior one for our needs.

LedgerX is fully separated from rest of FTX from financial perspective by virtue of CFTC regulation, so no impact on us!

tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
love to get your thoughts on what was the main source of failure
tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
There's a non-trivial chance we might be available in Euro area next year, but early to tell right now as we're focused on US.
tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
We'll be exploring AND/OR and conditional markets at some point... liquidity permitting.
tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
It's a prediction market in some ways... though prediction markets have been historically associated with unregulated venues etc.

We're fully regulated by the federal government as a derivatives exchange, and that's a big difference in an of itself (it took us years to figure out the right model to offer derivatives dynamically, with events as underlying). Regulation allows us to plug into the financial ecosystem, and offer the asset class to hedge funds, market makers, brokers, etc.

For all intent and purposes, we're a financial exchange that offers derivatives on a broad range of things that have been offered before.

tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
Yepp! and other big players like CME.

I'm super excited about that: we finally opened the space in a way that is meaningful enough for the big players to start taking note and join.

I think the events trading ecosystem is still very much in its infancy and there will be a lot of movement in the space in the next few years.

tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
Good question.

Among a number of other safeguards that I mentioned in a reply above, we often use well established and reputable data sources that either 1) already have restrictions on their employees trading on the event or 2) we enter into data licensing agreements with and require those restrictions to be put.

We also run KYC and pass all the participants through Politically Exposed Persons (PEPs) list, which allows us to flag people that are potentially close with a lot of our data sources (BLS, Nasa, MTA, etc.).

Our surveillance systems also do a great job of flagging weird activity (more in the post above) and anyone who we find to have done something wrong can be fined all the way to criminally prosecuted by the CFTC.

In short, a lot of similar safeguards to what you have against insider trading in stocks.

tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
Augur tried this and doesn't seem to have gained a lot traction doing so. Any staking schemes that were developed were relatively easily gamed and that led to distrust in the system.

We, like traditional financial exchanges, define the contracts upfront with clear rules on how they will be settled, then follow the letter of the law very strictly when settling a market.

In general, we've found market certainty to be more important that accuracy: ie. having pre-defined rules that everyone can agree on and that are pre-set is more important than those rules being the "correct rules" (not that having correct rules isn't important).

tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
thank you my friend - hope you give it a spin and send feedback my way
tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
It is a separate asset class yes. But it ties to other markets in a number of ways.

In your example, there's two things you could do depending on your usecase: 1) You think inflation will go up and capitalize on it. Today, you might think that a good way to do that is to short SPY. That's good, not great - because it's a proxy: inflation could still go up, and you SPY could go up as well (correlation is not 1:1 for a number of reasons).

The best way to express that view is by buying inflation event contracts: more direct, no basis risk, cleaner.

This use-case was super common when I was at Goldman and Citadel, which is where we got the idea.

2) You hold SPY but worry about the exposure of your holdings to inflation: you can use event contracts to hedge that exposure very precisely... think of it as a precise, meticulous surgery on your portfolio to eliminate (or even take) risks that are very difficult to eliminate with traditional instruments.

tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
There's a few points here - I'll try to address one by one:

1) Hand-wavy exchange of money. Most of the derivatives market, including some of the most traditional instruments like energy Futures, have massive amount of cash-settled activity, rather than physically-settled -- ie. nothing physical is actually exchange hands, and traders are purely exchange financial risk.

That doesn't make the transaction any less important and valuable: at the end of the day, participants are hedge financial exposure and cash-settlement is a great and more efficient way to get that hedge in.

2) Single-point of failure OR arbitrary change to the underlying. There's an extreme amount of scrutiny and safeguards around how CPI is calculated and how it is changed. CPI impacts trillions that are traded in traditional assets like interest rate swaps, inflation swaps, mortgages, etc. Also, CPI is a large factor in the Fed's decision to raise interest rates at every meeting. It cannot be changed by a single person, on a whim. And this tends to be true for all the data sources underlying our markets.

Arguably, a stock has much more key man risk (or "arbitrary whims risk") than something like CPI: eg. Elon ripping a bong and tweeting something's impact on Tesla stock.

3) More like roulette than actual investment. The lack of physical underlying doesn't make this any less of a financial instruments. Most liquid markets today do not actually exchange the underlying, eg. interest rate swaps, index futures, etc.

What differentiates a financial product from gambling is the presence of an economic purpose. A roulette spin does not need to happen - it happens solely to create an artificial risk for people to bet on. In the case of event contracts, things like an election or a CPI print already expose the market to risk... that risk already exists and our markets allow the transfer of said risk from people that have and can't bear it to people that have the appetite to bear it (that's actually the whole point of the commodity futures and derivatives market).

tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
I agree. The space is getting increasingly more savvy about how to handle this question in the derivatives markets though!
tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
We've been committed to battling through regulations to open and expand the market for close to 4 years now.

As I posted above, here's more (insider) information about what happened with PredictIt: https://www.capitolaccountdc.com/p/gambling-on-politics-an-i...

tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
It's something we may consider in the future... there's a lot we'd need to figure out from a regulatory standpoint before we get there.
tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
Great question. A few things here.

1. we spent years working with the regulators on defining and building our surveillance systems. They basically ingest data from the exchange and run stats/some ML to flag suspicious trading patterns to an investigation team in our compliance department (similar to when NYSE flags a Goldman trader for insider trading) -- our systems have gotten really sophisticated and you'd be surprised by the amount of commonality there is in cases of fraud/insider trading/manipulation/collusion and so on...

2. we tie people's trading activity to KYC we run at signup. We also pass people through Politically Exposed Persons (PEP) lists, that flag anyone that works in gov and their relatives etc.

3. when we investigate cases of inappropriate behaviors, the consequences can range from fines to criminal prosecution by the CFTC (similar to stock trading)

4. obv all the above are not a single hammer solution, they're heuristics, but people generally don't commit a federal crime to trade with $100, they tend to trade with much more meaningful sums, which fortunately and intuitively is much easier for our oversight programs to flag.

Overall, this question presents a number of fascinating challenges/questions, but it's not a more difficult problem than flagging insider trading/market manipulation in traditional markets like stocks and commodities.

tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
LedgerX is the only entity in the FTX empire that is fully shielded financially by virtue of being federally regulated by the CFTC.

These are exactly the types of situations where regulation matters most! We have seen no impact from that fallout and our customer funds are fully separated in a segregated member account held safely at SVB.

tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
this insider article should clear up a few things! https://www.capitolaccountdc.com/p/gambling-on-politics-an-i...
tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
Btw we have a discord channel if you want to join - traders tend to chat/debate/share trading strategies/troll us there: https://discord.gg/rJpKGZk6Wt
tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
noted - thanks for the suggestions!
tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
YC has funded a ton of great financial companies eg. Coinbase, One Chronos, etc.

We're a derivative exchange regulated by the CFTC. We're no more gambling than grain futures are!

tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
That's a good point - I didn't really think about this when posting (growth team really wanted those in).

Dang let me know if I should take them down/if they're super annoying.

tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
That's one view of this - I'd say it's pretty cynical though... Reminds me of how people reacted to insurance when it was first being introduced to the broader population "gambling on human lives/death! terrible!!".

While it's true to some extent, insurance is indeed crucial: one of the counter-parties is meaningfully reducing the risk of catastrophe, or extremely detrimental outcome at the very least.

This can be extended to all sorts of events, including Covid, the economy, politics (Brexit had devastating consequences), hurricanes, etc.

tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
You're right! Lots of people have tried this before. The main source of failure historically has been regulation.

We took the approach of addressing the elephant in the room first. We spent 3 years to crack the regulation case and we got federal approval to make sure we have the potential to get this market to its full potential.

tmansour··on Launch HN: Kalshi (YC W19) – A regulated exchange for trading on events
Our users and their use cases vary drastically....they can be asset managers with acute financial risks, freight carriers protecting against dry van rates dropping, traders looking for alpha, SMBs in Florida worried about a hurricane disrupting their operations, everyday people looking to hedge against inflation, and so on.
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