throwaway9143

And we don't collectively amplify human bullshitters? C'mon.

>If you want to make a difference, you’re not gonna make it here.

I'm replying to the people who disagree with me here, and there are several. The readers who are on the fence can make up their own mind. Your discouragement is not necessary or useful.

Yeah but nobody here is making the case that PWAs are better than native apps. The point is that PWAs are worth getting better support because it's better for everyone.

Bingo. Defenders of the app store have severe stockholm syndrome. Apple ruins the PWA experience intentionally, so they blame people who use PWAs, instead of Apple.

People bullshit all the time, convincingly. Somehow, we get by.

>If you actually care so much about PWAs then stop writing PWAs that your users hate using and go be a full time advocate for that instead.

I do care about PWAs, and so I am advocating, right now. I don't know why you come across as so angry about people who advocate for PWAs. Pushing companies to adhere to open web standards is a good thing, otherwise we'd still be stuck in IE6 world.

>I dislike people that refuse to ship anything but PWAs

What a weird thing to get all bent out of shape over. People do things a different way than you, get over it. If someone wants to only ship PWAs, why does that bother you so much? Because they're hurting users, and you're trying to protect them?

That's interesting. In what way is a PWA worse than a website wrt accessibility? I understand that you are comparing PWAs to native apps, but presumably you have a fine time with normal websites? PWAs shouldn't be any different.

"customer don't care what language/framework you are using" is a strange way to support a claim they do care about having a native app over a PWA. The first statement highlights that the user just wants something that works as advertised, and doesn't care about the framework. But the second statement highlights that, despite their disinterest in the technology, they care deeply about the app's delivery tech (PWAs vs native). I think this juxtaposition reveals a lot about why things are the way they are, and why users are forced to care about native apps over PWAs.

Just like language is a vehicle for logic, the app delivery tech is just a vehicle for a UI. PWA tech sucks because platforms are incentivized to make it suck. People prefer native apps because they're being funnelled down that path by anti-competitive interests. You don't seem to make that connection.

I get it, you were burned by PWAs and now you just want to build something that works for everyone relatively painlessly and makes money. Nothing wrong with that. But some of us also want support tech that fulfills the goals of the open web. You don't seem to care about that, but others do. Telling everyone its basically a lost cause is a silly and pointless endeavor, because PWAs are the long game, and you're playing the short game.

Yes, a full local reset. Its an issue that plagued us for almost a year sporadically across several thousand customers. After instrumenting our app with very detailed remote logging, we were fortunate enough to catch it on one of our in-house local test iPhones. The logging showed an app with rich local state, the app close, then several minutes later the app open with no local state. Everything was wiped. This lined up with the feedback we had been receiving. Specifically for us, the push notification subscription tokens were being erased/revoked from the browser, meaning the customer couldn't receive notifications anymore. But the logging showed all local state was reset, including IndexedDb. If you dig through the Apple developer forums and StackOverflow, you will see many others complaining about this. You will also see links to resources claiming that Apple ITP does not do this for PWAs, specifically:

https://webkit.org/tracking-prevention/#intelligent-tracking... "Home Screen Web Application Domain Exempt From ITP". This is 100% bullshit though.

My personal belief is that Apple is purposefully nuking PWAs from orbit in a non-deterministic and "buggy" way because they are a threat to the app store business model, and I suspect if they frustrate enough developers, people will stay away from PWAs.

I'll give you a hard-earned tip: expect to fight Apple every step of the way. They will randomly erase all local data (cookies, localstorage, push subscription tokens, etc) in your PWA without warning. They say they don't do this, but I have the receipts. They want PWAs to suffer, and you will go insane trying to make workarounds on iPhone.

The gas alone is worth the membership.

"I'm selling croissants."

Gives you Haggis.

"Well it's all food so what's the big deal, stop regulating me."

Where in the first amendment does it state you must allow criminal speech?

Sounds fair to me. Let the families broadcast to his audience daily the harms of criminal speech, until they all unsubscribe. Or better yet, to promote their own products, so that they can recoup some of the $1.5B damage Alex Jones has done to them. Better that then giving this grifter another tweet to cause damage to the collective psyche of the world.

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People have gotten the message that capitalism is a cancer that will exploit workers of every bit of value for a pittance. People are fighting back by quiet quitting and doing the absolute bare minimum to collect a paycheck. There's literally no point in working hard for your higher ups to make bank off of you while you get an "attaboy." They're going to learn the hard way now.

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They don't need to reasonably define a hate crime. Being scared of a hate crime is enough. And if they're scared, they've been given reason to be scared. And the person giving them a reason to be scared should be watched. If you don't want to be locked up for a hate crime, then don't scare people into thinking you're going to hurt them.

If you've scared your fellow citizens into believing you're going to commit an imminent hate crime, then you're probably guilty. Government exists to keep us all safe from external and internal threats. Government protecting us from people who are imminently going to commit hate crimes is government working as intended.