throwaway52

This is spot on. I think at this point I'm seeing the light, but just because things are looking like they'll end badly doesn't mean I'll put myself in a worse position because of it. Good call.

Wowzer. I really appreciate the honesty -- and you're right about the fact that they are quite established MBAs and I am just a young idealistic programmer.

The fact that the CEO will often pull code off the internet and say we should use it shows me that respect is not really there and from that, I've always questioned how much they respect me/my role/my abilities.

I think you're spot on about giving them the option of keeping me or not -- I don't generally like to threaten anyone about leaving, but I think if handled well, I can explain my expectations and what I'd like, and then go from there. With a backup plan of course.

Thanks for the insight.

We've all discussed other options and belly up would be the worst case scenario ... they're hoping that they can, at worst, get bought up by some conglomerate to ease the pain. The safe "thing" about it, though, is that for the most part, they can't do what they want to do at all without me. So, while I may not enjoy the circumstances, I do have job security until the job disappears.

Next question about startups and quitting -- how long is long enough notice? I've not gotten into specifics with any other companies yet, but is 2 weeks too little time for a startup?

The first flag was when they told me that not to worry, when we brought on a second programmer, he would report to me. Heh.

This is probably true -- though I've been in situations like that before (swap shares for money) and never take them as I just don't think that type of very passive "threat" (for lack of a better term) is ever fruitful. But, on the other hand, I don't have a ton of business experience, so maybe it would work out. Do you have any experience in those situations? Staying after discussing leaving?

Thanks for the experience based insight. I've had that nagging worry all along.

Part of me has wanted to be a bit more trustworthy as they've shown themselves to be very friendly people -- I regularly go to bars with the CEO outside of work, the COO and I share interests and talk about them/engage in them (being vague here), etc. But I think your point is pretty clear and well thought out. And pretty much not arguable. Thanks for that.

From what they said was that to give out shares at this point would require additional lawyer fees. They are already formed as an S corp (I believe), so I'm not sure how much lawyer fees would be required, but nevertheless, I was young and naive when I first started (this is my first startup) and probably should have pushed a bit harder.

You'd be amazed ... when I first started I reported to the (then) COO who reported to the CEO. But we all sit in the same room, so I'd ask the COO my question, and then he would turn and ask the CEO, who would turn and answer the COO who would then turn and answer me.

But your point about being taken advantage of has been in the forefront of my mind. Thanks for giving that some credence.

Well when you put it like that...

All kidding aside, I think that I've been stuck in a forest for the trees mode. From the outside, I think you're able to see whats going on a lot better than I. Thanks for that.