HNHacker News
TopNewBestAskShowJobs

throwaway28409

44 karma · joined February 25, 2025

submissionscomments
throwaway28409··on Signal to leave Sweden if backdoor law passes
Technology very much does. It's the flesh that has a hard time triumphing over force. To counteract this, you can also engineer a system that can resist it through e.g. split secrets on multiple people located in different jurisdictions.
throwaway28409··on Signal to leave Sweden if backdoor law passes
Note that I said "can", not "legally can". You can destroy currency, alter passport, reproduce copyrighted images if you want to. There may be legal consequences but you can. You can also stab a person with a knife you own, even if you will be punished for it. I'm not talking about rights, but capabilities.

You can't make your phone lie to an app developer about its location, rooted status, etc. You can't make your HP printer print with unsanctioned ink. Therefore, you do not own them.

throwaway28409··on Signal to leave Sweden if backdoor law passes
> It may be wrong, but it proves that technology can't beat politics and policy.

It very much can. In a battle between human force and physics, physics win every time. If I send an encrypted email to you, you have the choice to not give up the key, even if you'll be in jail. With physical letters, you don't have this option. Technology gives you the ironclad ability to keep a secret, only limited by the fortitude of your character.

throwaway28409··on Signal to leave Sweden if backdoor law passes
> they operate?

How are they operating? It might as well be viewed as citizens of Sweden interacting with a foreign service out of their own volition.

In general, laws are backed up by the threat of violence. To the extent that Sweden's police can't confiscate Signal's assets in the US, they do not have to comply with anything. The only leverage Sweden's government may have is ISP level censorship, which is likely to cause unintended disruptions. Signal is in turn free to attempt to circumvent the censorship.

throwaway28409··on Signal to leave Sweden if backdoor law passes
> The idea, that companies or politicians can force the user's machine to work against it's owner, is wrong.

You are hinting at something important here. Let me strengthen your point: to own an object means to subject it fully to your own will. If the object can act in a way that favors someone else's interests over yours, you do not own it. This is true of pretty much any device running proprietary software.

A litmus test: can you make your device lie to the manufacturer's servers? Regardless of the legality or morality of doing so.

However this article is really about something else: the vulnerability of centralized services in the face of government oppression. Signal only has the ability to log messages because it is a centralized service that controls both the client and the server. The benefits of E2EE is greatly reduced if the client and the server is controlled by the same entity (tomorrow Signal can push out an update that would send a plaintext backup to their servers, and you wouldn't know it until later). Moreover, the non-free distribution mechanisms on mobile phones (stores) limits a company's ability to resist.