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skhon Urban Neighborhoods, Once Distinct by Race and Class, Are Blurring

It might be more valuable for blacks to focus on ways to lower the actual crime rate than the perceived crime rate.

Oh definitely this is needed. Poor city black culture has some very negative aspects to it that this community needs to address. This fact coupled with the environment of political correctness makes it hard to have honest discussions about race.

skhon Urban Neighborhoods, Once Distinct by Race and Class, Are Blurring

I didn’t make any implicit ad hominems. From my perspective you read what I write and interpret it with an assumption that I’ve got a particular agenda. Here are some pertinent quotes from what I wrote:

I did not say that weberc2 is wrong.

I can see and understand why weberc2 thinks media portrayal is minority friendly.

If I had to guess I’d wager that weberc2 leans right politically in the U.S. based on language he/she used.....I could be wrong. This is all a guess on my part.

And here I switch from you to our. Since the issue does not pertain solely to you but to everyone including me.

In what ways have the sources of our information formed our views?

In what way have I engaged in ad hominem like reasoning. I have not characterized you as anything bad or negative. I did state that I thought you were right of center politically but in what way is this an attack?

It appears that we agree when it comes to talking about race issues. I wrote:

I think weberc2 is referring to politically correct speech and how we have gone a bit far in this regard when talking about race issues. It’s very hard to have an honest discussion about race in the U.S. because of this.

I don’t see how you can say you’ve been attacked or that you’ve had to defend yourself.

skhon Urban Neighborhoods, Once Distinct by Race and Class, Are Blurring

Thank you for your comment. Why does this attire evoke the image of a stereotypical example of a criminal? Where does this stereotype come from? Is the stereotype correct? Does it have anything to do with originating with black culture? Have you ever met a gangbanger? I havne’t. I too have this perception of this attire being “gangbanger dress”. But this perception does not come from experience. It comes from media.

I personally have not seen white youth in gangbanger attire accosted by cops in white upper class neighborhoods. I have seen blacks accosted in upper white neighborhoods. I’m willing to bet that most interactions between cops and whites in gangbanger attire in white neighborhoods are much less intense than between cops and blacks in said attire in white neighborhoods.

skhon Urban Neighborhoods, Once Distinct by Race and Class, Are Blurring

weberc2 said that the cited paper/study/opinion piece was puzzling given one recent event. I suggested that weberc2 might want to further study the issue to see if his/her perception is wrong. I did not say that weberc2 is wrong. What I was hinting at is a larger issue facing American society as it pertains to media consumption.

In the present era it is easy for media to focus stories on a given segment of society. People increasingly are in “news” bubbles where their preconceived views are reinforced by the media they consume. I put news in quotes because mostly what we have now are entertainment companies whose business model is largely based on generating rage by framing stories a certain way.

I can see and understand why weberc2 thinks media portrayal is minority friendly. If I had to guess I’d wager that weberc2 leans right politically in the U.S. based on language he/she used. I think weberc2 is referring to politically correct speech and how we have gone a bit far in this regard when talking about race issues. It’s very hard to have an honest discussion about race in the U.S. because of this. I think weberc2’s view on the matter at hand is referring mostly to this or comes from this perspective. I could be wrong. This is all a guess on my part.

When I talked about media portrayal I’m talking about movies, tv shows, images that have been spun to give a certain perspective. Narratives that have been crafted over decades that change what images are evoked when certain phrases are said. For instance, it wasn’t until after white flight from the cities that “inner city” became a phrase.

My suggesting to weberc2 was to look into all this. In what ways have the sources of our information formed our views? Are those views correct? Does the evidence support them?

skhon Urban Neighborhoods, Once Distinct by Race and Class, Are Blurring

In general I agree with the sentiment of your comments. I’m not one to dismiss a person’s opinion posted on an internet discussion site due to lack of cited studies. No one can provide studies to back up their views in every instance.

In the context we are talking about media perceptions. One person presents a study that provides an opposite conclusion to another person’s view. That study is 4 years old. Things may have changed in the intervening 4 years and arguments that they have are welcome.

skhon Urban Neighborhoods, Once Distinct by Race and Class, Are Blurring

I mentioned that whites are a majority of the population. I wrote:

This despite the fact that whites - due to being a majority of th population - consume a majority of the welfare.

I’m just posting my own observations and views. I did quote some very specific examples to support my view but what I wrote wasn’t to be taken as conclusive proof.

There are a vast number of articles and scholarly works published on the issue of race portrayal in American media. You can do a web search to find them if you are interested in the topic.

By the way, I’m upper class white. Have very little experience with inner city black culture but realize that even using the phrase “inner city” is pretty much coded language. When people talk about inner city problems inevitably one thinks of brown people. You and your friends may be exceptions to this but statistics and surveys show otherwise for most people.

skhon Urban Neighborhoods, Once Distinct by Race and Class, Are Blurring

You can cite anecdotes and the person you responded to cited a study. The puzzling thing is that you choose to focus on the former and not the latter. You have been presented evidence that your perception is not correct. Perhaps study the issue further to see if indeed your perception is incorrect.

skhon Urban Neighborhoods, Once Distinct by Race and Class, Are Blurring

I think you read what I wrote with some wrong assumptions. For instance you seem to think that my comment on blacks and crimes was a statement that supports a view of the legal system being racist. Nothing I said implies this or can reasonably be construed as suggesting this.

I said that blacks are on average more likely to be charged with committing a crime than whites. You agree with this since you mention that blacks overcommit crime. Obviously my comment suggests that the variance in the black community is higher than it is in the white community. I didn’t attempt to deny any facts as you put it. My agreement with you is right there in writing. I said blacks on average are more likely to be charged with committing a crime.

I don’t know how old you are but growing up in the 1970s and 1980s when crime was very high there was media narrative with regard to crime and race. This spilled over into the 1990s with Clinton’s remarks about super predators and the need for the 100 thousand cops program. The famous welfare queen that Reagan talked about was black and the image was created that blacks were a problem in terms of being a drain on the system.

Here’s a thought experiment. Have two black guys walk around a predominantly upper middle class white neighborhood walk around with hoodies and low jeans. See if the cops stop them. Have two white guys do the same. I’ll bet more times than not the white guys are treated differently.

Poor white Americans are not more racist than richer white Americans. Framing images and using coded language though allows poor white Americans to get a perception that the problem people, the ones who leech off the system are the brown people and not them. Using race gets people to lose focus on what ought to be socio economic discussions by getting them to think of race.

You should read about the Southern Strategy the Republican party engaged in. Here’s a quote from Atwater:

Y'all don't quote me on this. You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "nigger" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."

skhon Urban Neighborhoods, Once Distinct by Race and Class, Are Blurring

In the U.S. we have a lot of problems that are really socio-economic that are discussed in terms of race. There are historical reasons for this and this is particularly true in the southeastern part of the country. When white people talk about those taking handouts or getting something for free they mostly are talking about poor brown people. This despite the fact that whites - due to being a majority of th population - consume a majority of the welfare. If I talk about poor people in a large city almost everyone will imagine a black person.

There is the perception broadly speaking that white = wealthy and black = poor. Blacks on average are poorer and are more likely to be charged with committing a crime but in terms of numbers most crimes are committed by whites and most poor people are white. In the 90s when Hilary Clinton talked about super predators the images were those of black criminals. When Reagan talked about welfare queens the image given was of a black woman with lots of kids.

I’ve felt that if poor whites in the U.S. stopped thinking of themselves as better than brown people, if they would stop believing the myths and media narratives about race then we’d have universal health care and free higher education. A former President from Texas once said

If you can convince the lowest white man that he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll even empty his pockets for you.

skhon Widespread and sometimes drastic marine oxygen declines

We’re always 10 years from total annihilation and destruction.

I know people talk in hyperbole to make a point but can you point to any credible source in the last 30 years stating we are close to total annilhilation within the next 50 years? No one doubts the Earth will be fine. The doubt is whether or not human civilization will be fine.

skhon Can We Delay a Greenhouse Warming? (1983) [pdf]

I think you have it wrong. The language was deliberately changed due to work done by Frank Lutz.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luntz#Global_warming

skhon Can We Delay a Greenhouse Warming? (1983) [pdf]

Frank Lutz is a big reason for why we went from talking about Global Warming to Climate Change. Frank Lutz is a famous Republcan operative.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luntz#Global_warming

skhon AMA: Bill Gates

But then he doesn't get to passive-aggressively whine about all of his piles of money that the government won't take from him.

Suppose you are right that he is being passive agressive. I strongly disagree with this assessment but let’s for the sake of argument agree that he is being passive aggressive. Why is his right to be passive-aggressive diminished? Is he not allowed to be passive-aggressive or hypocritical or any other negative view you have about him?

The correctness of his view that people like him ought to be taxed at a higher rate is not dependent upon his character flaws or lack thereof. The belief ought to be judged on its own merits and not analyzed based on whether or not his character passes muster.

skhon Facebook moderators in America

Your position is consistent but for most people not tenable. It’s hard to claim that the “information” as you put it is abstract when it exists in video format that can be watched. When you make statement like

Moreover, once you start censoring you will never be able to stop.

Your position become less credible. You need to argue that the censoring that is currently being proposed or being done is indeed bad for society. Or that we’d be better off without said censoring. Engaging in slippery slope style reasoning is not helpful.

skhon Facebook moderators in America

Well, society decides. Sometimes societies have a framework for deciding the grey area between individual rights and the right of society to regulate (in the form of government). That’s what political and legal battles are all about. There is nothing unfortunate about this though. What is good at an individual level may not be good at a societal level.

skhon Facebook moderators in America

You think child porn is pretty much the only thing that is illegal to video? I think you should do further research on this issue. There’s a lot more than just child porn that is illegal to video.

All societies have regulated speech. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t believe this should be so. A desire to censor some things should not be spoken of as a desire to censor everything. Such hyperbole undermines your position.

With Facebook and Google speech is easier to disseminate. It’s also way easier to target said speech. No one can be vigilant at all times in terms of checking sources and accuracy of what we see/read/watch. People are easily duped. People are easily led to believe things that are obviously false. The anti-vax movement is an example of this.

We have entered an information age unlike any other in the past. This ability to sway, target, and reach so many at scale for so little cost has implications that may cause society to re-examine the nature of free speech. If Facebook let’s the floodgates open as you say then this re-examination will come much sooner and likely be the result of outrage and thus end up hurting Facebook in the long run. Facebook would like to prevent this from happening. Hence they take steps toward mitigating the public perception of Facebook enabling bad actors.

skhon U.S. Is a Rich Country with Symptoms of a Developing Nation

Do you apply this standard to all beliefs you have? It’s interesting that you wrote what you did when you could have done a search and found some answers. From the third link below:

Meanwhile, Americans’ international peers enjoy more efficient and reliable services, and their public investment in infrastructure is on average nearly double that of the United States.....The United States generally lags behind its peers in the developed world. According to the World Economic Forum’s Global Competitiveness Report, in 2016 the United States ranked [PDF] tenth in the world in a broad measure of infrastructure quality—down from fifth place in 2002. That places it behind countries like France, Germany, Japan, and Spain.

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=37562

http://theconversation.com/measuring-up-us-infrastructure-ag...

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/state-us-infrastructure

skhon Pinterest Blocks Vaccination Searches in Move to Control the Conversation

I never suggested, hinted, or implied that peoples’ non-expert intuition is always wrong. I never suggested, or implied that people keep their brains shut and feelings suppressed if those feelings are not in line with expert opinion.

skhon Toxic ‘Forever Chemicals’ in Drinking Water Leave Military Families Reeling

How do you eplain all the instances of when government has shown regard for doing the best for its citizens? Do you apply the same logic you used here for government on corporations? Instead of focusing on the fact that it was a government agency in this instance let’s focus on the fact that without proper oversight bad things can happen. This is true for corporations, individuals, government agencies, non-profit agencies, and all other organized groups of people.

skhon Pinterest Blocks Vaccination Searches in Move to Control the Conversation

I’ve only been talking about topics in which the overwhelming majority of experts in that area agree upon. If each year’s class of residency graduates in psychiatry all have different opinions on a given topic then this clearly is not in the scope of my comments. Also, I acknowledged that sometimes experts get it wrong. My point is that this fact ought not disuade someone from relying upon consensus expert opinion. Few people have expertise in an area of science and very few have expertise in more than one area of science. We need to rely on what others tell us to be true. I don’t know anyone who has personally run the Michelson-Morley experiment but I know the overwhelming majority of physicists agree the results of the experiment. I’m not arrogant enough to think they are wrong.

If 99% of oncologists think you have cancer then I hope you get treatment for cancer. And if 99% of them think option A is your best hope then I suggest you take their advice. You don’t have to. They may be wrong but in this world of uncertainty and imperfect information it’s the best option.

skhon Pinterest Blocks Vaccination Searches in Move to Control the Conversation

In an area as concrete and black/white as mathematics it’s still hard to convince some non experts that we really do know what we are talking about. Imagine how much harder it is in trying to convince anti vaxers to vaccinate. When society makes policy it’s best not to treat everyone’s opinion as equal. We are not able to always correctly deduce what is the best course of action on our own when it’s an area we have no expertise in.

I used be a fundamentalist, right wing Christian. Absolutely convinced that evolution was wrong. Eventually I was able to take the blinders off and ask myself, “Why is it that the overwhelming majority of people who study biology at the advanced level agree with evolution?”. It takes a great deal of arrogance to dismiss a conclusion that the overwhelming majority of the experts in a given area agree upon. Of course people get it wrong sometimes but we have to navigate life with imperfect information/knowledge. Who else do we rely upon? Keep in mind I’m not saying believe whatever an expert says. I’m saying that if the overwhelming majority of experts in a given area agree on something then that carries a tremendous amount of weight.

My wife is a psychiatrist. betulaq’s comment in the link you provided is one worth looking at.

skhon Pinterest Blocks Vaccination Searches in Move to Control the Conversation

My area of expertise is mathematics. A number of times I’ve explained to someone that the concept of infinite sets is a well defined one. There is a definition and it allows us to work with such sets. I provided the (from my perspective) simple definition and an explanation but to no avail. My point is that often times people outside of the area just don’t understand it. Personally I don’t care if someone doesn’t understand something but I do care if their misunderstanding becomes normative and endangers others.

Pre-internet nutjobs existed in all communities. Cranks and whatnot. This is nothing new. What is new is the scale at which such people can propagate their nonsense. The cost of convincing others your are right has drastically declined. The speed at which such stupidity can spread has greatly increased.

We have entered an era in which regulation of stupid, crackpot ideas may need to happen. If and when we do decide to crackdown on this it’s best to rely on expert opinion. This is of course just an opinion of mine.

I submit to you that the vast majority of what you believe is due to knowledge you gained form others and not from first principles as you put it.

skhon Pinterest Blocks Vaccination Searches in Move to Control the Conversation

I should have said speech instead of ideas. I think it’s clear from what I wrote what I was getting at. All societies regulate speech. I don’t know anyone who thinks speech should never be regulated.

skhon Pinterest Blocks Vaccination Searches in Move to Control the Conversation

We don’t allow people selling certain homeopathic remedies to make certain medical claims while selling the product. So we do regulate speech.

skhon Pinterest Blocks Vaccination Searches in Move to Control the Conversation

Of course people are free to practice medicine on themselves. They are free to make up their own minds on what they think is right/wrong. They ought not be free, in my opinion, to unduly influence others. At least not necessarily free to spout off whatever ideas they think are correct. Of course this quickly gets into grey areas and situations where the right amount of suppression of ideas gets tricky. It’s OK for government to get involved in this too. For instance we don’t allow peddlers of snake oil to make whatever claims they desire to make. This is a good thing.

I’ll restate my point in a different way. When government is deciding what types of scientific information peddling ought to be banned or regulated it’s best for our leaders to consult the experts of that area.

skhon Pinterest Blocks Vaccination Searches in Move to Control the Conversation

We is you, me, and society at large. Yes, it really is the best we can do. If a very large majority of the people who study an area of science agree on a conclusion in that area then it’s more likely they are right than someone who has no expertise in that area. Clearly if a large majority of the experts in an area of science agree on something then it suggests that if a person were to educate themself in that area to the point of being an expert then they’d agree with the conclusion too.

Non experts deciding for themselves what is right/wrong is a recipe for disaster. Peoples’ intuition is usually wrong without a lot of experience to back it up. It’s why we don’t let just anyone practice medicine or structural engineering. Expertise matters and the opinions of experts matter much more than a nonexpert’s opinion.

skhon Pinterest Blocks Vaccination Searches in Move to Control the Conversation

Science gets it wrong sometimes. New information requires revision. The best we can do is go by consensus expert opinion. There will always be some probabilty of error but we needn’t be afraid to declare some things dangerous and wrong.

skhon Germany Tells America to Verpissen Off Over Huawei 5G Cyber-Sicherheitsbedenken

It’s a statement of how I perceive things. It’s not an anti-American or pro-China perspective. It’s just the way the world is now. American soft power is being diminished. I don’t think this is disputable or controversial. As China’s economy gets bigger it’s natural for this to occur. It will eventually be the case that China’s economy becomes the most important one. The loss of American soft power would be happening with or without Trump being the President. I didn’t mention Trump in my post so I don’t know why you bring him up.

skhon Germany Tells America to Verpissen Off Over Huawei 5G Cyber-Sicherheitsbedenken

It’s becoming a multi polar world. American soft power is being diminished. I think it’s better to say that obeisance to America is no longer the only consideration.

skhon What Even Is a Number?

All of mathematics is built on sand in the sense that there necessarily are going to be undefined terms. There’s no way around this. Think about the English language. Grab a dictionary. Look up any word in it. Look at the definition of that word. Pick a word in that definition. Repeat and eventually you’ll end up with a defintition that contains one of the words you previously looked up. So English is built on sand too and yet we are able to still communicate.