6,016 karma · joined October 1, 2013
1. Legal loopholes given OpenAI's advertising aspirations and model training needs
2. Data retention and rising threats of fascism that historically have not served the persecuted very well when fascist regimes get access to said data
3. Risk from centralized collection of that data with a company whose software I do not control in a world where enshitification and lock-in is the norm.
I really wish OpenAI did more to espouse exactly this: "When I say no training, I mean no training. No gimmicks around data vs derived data, synthetic data, preference data, etc." and ideally provide technical reasurrances that this is impossible (eg: certain technical ZDR approaches, etc.).
Do you happen to have a favorite reference to point me at that would document some of those official assurances to the nuanced detail we've discussed here?
Your response to the original question is using generalized terminology when there is a very important distinction the OP made by the use of "sanitized."
People want to know to that extent derivatives of their data are being used. Synthetic data has been proven to be effective at generating training data and AI is very good at shuffling context such that you have something where you don't have to say it is "user data."
But there are many shades of gray there for people versed in how the sausage is made. I'm sure you'll appreciate then why your response leaves additional questions in light of that "sanitized" distinction.
That flaw is that for all the features they bolt on for free, the actual depth never feels that much deeper. It feels like the shallow pond got wider.
The worlds and universe still feel repetitive and empty. There is very little emergent gameplay. Mechanics are not complex compared to simulator sandboxes like E:D or more in depth survival crafter games.
And so you end up with what often feels like a kids toy with the edges filed off. Its very colorful, and they keep giving us me shinier versions for free, but it still feels like playing with Duplo when I want it to be LEGO or K'Nex.
And I say the above with nothing but respect for Sean and the team and what they have accomplished. I will be a launch day LNF player as well.
Usually I find out by noticing symptoms of worsening quality, costs increasing more than I might expect, ramp up in aggressive cross selling of services and subscriptions, shifting to call services that are clearly not local and know nothing of our area, etc.
In some cases I'll get an employee that knows the situation and let's spill the PE sale and then I need to find a new service provider.
You are simply learning a new language, whose syntax happens to look like English (or whatever language you speak), but with new, undiscovered, and constantly changing design patterns and best practices.
What I desperately want is for 1password or stripe or even Google who already has much of my data, to o come up with a secure solution for online purchases with agentic credit cards where I can effectively get a phone prompt to authorize a purchase while the agent can fully own the checkout flow.
I have seen various things coming on the market for this, but none of them appear aimed at a consumer audience. And I am a firm believer at this point in keeping my payment authorization and history and credentials harness agnostic.
The site uses Astro to hot load edits and so the exceptional Live voice model would use some filler words in response to me asking for an edit and before I knew it, the page had refreshed with the fix.
When people talk about things like OpenClaw and Hermes being a new operating system paradigm this is the sort of UX that comes to mind.
And simply conversing with it with my phone in my pocket and air pods on its the closest I've felt to a live conversation with AI ever.
Kudos to the voice mode and Live voice model teams.
AI is a utility that can abstract code to such a high level it is indiscernible from natural language.
But these are not the same level of technical assurance you get from say, a zero data retention provider on OpenRouter.
Right now I am finding I have to tolerate substantial friction to use Hermes for personal stuff with a ZDR provider and ChatGPT and Codex for less personal stuff because the products and models are simply so much better.
I spent ages tracking down start appears to be an issue with the current Deepseek v4 flash 0731 version that would cause it to output giant walls of gibberish in Hermes with reasoning turned on.
I have bent over backwards trying to enforce brevity with deepseek v4 flash to the point where I think I broke some things trying to do prompt injection in my Hermes setup and was still unsuccessful.
Meanwhile Sol blows me away and I want that to be my default for everything now.
In general though I seem to have the most success with a "<=10w" requirement in my prompts.
What I don't see listed and would be a good comparison is the STS models. OpenAI's live model is an absolute joy to talk with.
But ultimately from a pure "did this work or not" standpoint you are right. Incrementality experiments are the gold standard.