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shava23

31 karma · joined July 10, 2013

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shava23··on Nick Farr's 30c3 Jake Appelbaum story of abuse and harassment
Actually it was trying to fight back against Pando that taught me a great deal about trying to cut water with a sword, tbh. You can find me in that stream. You won't find me working on arguing particulars until I have a contract around rules, in general. Mobs don't have rules.

One sane person using logic can't win, ever.

When there is a venue with a contract, whether that can be negotiated outside a state system, or comes with it, we can talk about this like a community. Until such time, this is torches and pitchforks, and bad precedent for our future, which is what we are for, what we are about, and what the accusers claim they are trying to preserve.

We all want that. Even the accusers have to acknowledge that Jake has contributed significant independent work to that. So in respect for not destroying the overall reputation of hacktivism in the outside world -- where we have accomplished things like:

Snowden convincing people that Comey is full of shit supporting people in Congress in the US like Leahy and Wyden Shutting down Free Harbor for it's eventual renegotiation Various leaks and their support many many direct actions many many civil disobediences many many cons and sharing information much public education through mainstream and less mainstream media and all the things that people count that I'm not enumerating because everyone has other goggles on their tin hats, this is just the first few slides on mine because I'm old and straight right?

but this stuff is morphing the world, not just our culture, and this reaches the US and EU and all over, out into tech press and MSM and everywhere else.

It is not about a bunch of play parties and cliques and hacker cons and thons and house parties and who knows who and whatnot and people being aspie and sensitive and whatever and whispering campaigns and whatever and consent culture and rape culture and all these things.

It's about that, and it's about a bunch of smiling gray faces who love to see us fight and destroy ourselves over this shit, as non-authoritarian cultures always do, like ulcers eating our own flesh. Because no matter what Jake did and didn't do, this mechanism is vigilante and abusive. It can not stand.

It is designed to prolong the chaos and damage. What is the end you have in sight? Where does the recursion end? When someone takes a hit out on him on some skanky dark net site?

This is what Hoover did to MLK in the 60s. And MLK fucked up; he was human. He was not faithful to his wife. He screamed and swore at this planning group in the SCLC.

Gandhi was a freaking monster in a lot of ways. He beat his wife. He was probably exactly a sociopath, within modern diagnostic bounds. Mahatma. Later, he sent troops to support Britain in WWII. he was not a pacifist in any absolute sense. He was HUMAN.

Mandela was in jail for years. Why? Because the Boers would not listen to the ANC when they were nonviolent -- the Boers felt they didn't have to. So Mandela took a deep sad breath, and they bombed a train which had civilians including families with women and children and civilian men, and the Boers howled for his blood! And Mandela came forward and said, "Put me in jail and don't look for the others, and I will come peacefully, and the ANC will return to nonviolence -- but understand, this is in our blood, we are Zulu, still." And the Boer listened. And this is why they always called him a murderer, Mandela. This man of peace.

This stuff is not easy. There are no saints. If you wait for saints to take up social change, you will live in hell forever.

So stop it. You are creating a world where no one will ever dare to move out of their front door and take up a life of activism, because they can not know if Jake is a sociopath, or a person who is being framed.

And unless we create some way to clarify that, you people are playing right into the hands of history that no one will come into this path. It's hard enough. It is FUCKING HARD ENOUGH to get people to take up peace and no money and justice and risk.

And you add our own FUD, on top of the FUD that gets rained down on us.

Find me a court, a contract, an actual way to resolve this, or use the state.

Fuck this noise.

shava23··on Nick Farr's 30c3 Jake Appelbaum story of abuse and harassment
https://www.google.com/search?q=slippery%20slope%20is%20not%...

The "slippery slope" is not a logical fallacy, but calling it one is a great rhetorical measure to shut someone up if you don't like their argument.

Similarly, the argument you cite above, if properly applied, is valid. How about McCarthyism and such campaigns. You obviously have to protect our precious bodily fluids. It is as easy to frame this as a way to put Jake in the framing of one of the last remaining purity taboos, framed as an anonymous anarchist group. How can an anarchist advocate of anonymity object?

Except that an anarchist would contract to confront a problem with all aggrieved parties in the open, not like this witch hunt. So these people are not acting like anarchists, they are just ducking state mechanisms and summoning a mob.

This is what puts anarchy in ill repute with the general public. It's not what anarchy calls for in these cases. So I am trying to act like a responsible anarchist and picking up his advocacy. If someone from that crowd wants to pick up their advocacy and Jake actually authorizes representation outside a court (which he hasn't, btw) maybe we can have a moot.

Otherwise, this is a mob.

shava23··on Nick Farr's 30c3 Jake Appelbaum story of abuse and harassment
Joshua Gay pointed out the website to me over on Facebook, and said, go ahead and delete this if you like, and I replied:

I'm not going to delete it. That would be ridiculous considering my history. People can go look for themselves and ponder what this process means in comparison to any other sort of process that would be sane, safe, and consensual -- and accountable -- for all the people involved.

That site talks a great deal about the failings of the formal systems, but it really doesn't particularly seem to me to account for thttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crucible

I am not impressed. I am so not impressed. Even if it is 100% true, I am not impressed. And I am sorry for the victims if that is the case, and I apologize if they are doing this in good faith but it's wrong, and it opens up such potential for horrible horrible things in the future that they just haven't properly conceived of yet.

I am a feminist, and I have been raped, as many women have. And I say that this is WRONG. And I am a woman with Asperger's and I was chronically bullied and manipulated by asshats when I was younger, and I believe this is wrong.

The places this leads are a very fucked up rabbit hole and series of rabbit holes that go to a place that is not Wonderland, and where the drugs are not as pleasant as Dodson's epileptic fancies.

So Jake, if Jake is this predator, and say he is. Who is the next person that this is used against, this Blair Witch Predator doxxing? How popular will it become? Will it become the next GamerGate trend? Will we find TLAs stirring up little Stasi sites like this?

Or maybe just creating them for fun. How about our friends in Italy, or any of the state sponsored hacker funhouses, this site is so stylish, they could throw something like this up in an afternoon, for any of us. Even me. Even you? Do you have any oppo research? Anyone at FSF? Eben Moglen? rms? Any of my old friends? I'm sure we all have something worth digging up. I've done oppo. We all do.

Let's make this perfectly acceptable in our community. Let's make it meaningful. Let some real HELL into our lives, Joshua. We can make our community hell on earth. All we have to do is let the provocateurs be us.

This is the fastest route away from nonviolence theory and the Beloved Community and straight down that primrose path.

shava23··on Nick Farr's 30c3 Jake Appelbaum story of abuse and harassment
Generally, my friend, if there is a crowd with torches and pitchforks approaching, it does not matter what the guilt is in the situation, one retreats and does not show ones head for a long time, or one will lose it.

You are just lending yourself to number of the many judges of the court of public opinion now, yes? Here, you may take up the torch and pitchfork of office. Wield them proudly. If you can't catch Jake, who do you think you will go after next, now that you are all dressed up and no where to go?

shava23··on Nick Farr's 30c3 Jake Appelbaum story of abuse and harassment
What we have here is a set of social engineers social engineering an ouster of a fellow social engineer from the fellowship of his fellow social engineers.

Welcome to the snake pit.

No matter what all of you may think of the stand-up-ness of any of the folks involved, there are strong agendas in whomever is presenting a case here.

I, for one, am no longer involved in the Tor Project, but I am the founding executive director, and I haven't so much as spoken to Jake for years -- I believe I ran into him very briefly at a Tor hackathon about three years ago at the MIT Media Lab -- and haven't spoken him to any serious depth for a good nine years. So I don't have a serious horse in this race. I care about the project a good deal more but I've been retired, not on the board, and not particularly volunteering due to a stroke a while back.

But this kind of thing bites.

Sit down, STFU, and wait for the courts, if any, to settle it out. We went through this with Assange too. It divides people up.

There are a few things to say here.

The most radical thing you can do for a woman is to believe her. Fine. The most radical thing you can do for an activist, is to believe him or her. Applies to Jake and to Nick, amiright? But. To. Both. The best thing you can do for your community is to stop tearing it up at the roots with gossip, like archetypical old ladies. Which I feel qualified to say, as the local blue hair (ok buzz cut battle ship gray) retiree. Opsec says, every one of these reasonable sounding people is a liar with an agenda.

So, much as I would love to believe Jake, the women involved, Nick, and the tooth fairy, all of them are hackers at hacker cons, and you are all my peeps, and I love you. And there is no spoon, no truth, and no use to hacking this out in an internet forum as a form of vigilante justice.

My gray haired thought is this is all prurient, for a loooong time.

Please chill.

This is just the kind of thing that regardless of who is in...error...makes a community spin until it's sick and the good people fly away.

If we are wise we'll all work to de-escalate, not justify or discuss, until things can go through normalized channels.

I don't expect for an moment that will happen, but I feel compelled to make the appeal.

Shava Nerad founding exec dir, The Tor Project, retired 2007 but speaking entirely for myself

shava23··on Healthcare.gov: Code by the People, for the People, Released Back to the People
tbf, there is a good social engineering function to propaganda. Propaganda is not necessarily false, it just can be. If you look at the roots of the word (which originates with the Jesuits) it has the same meaning as "to go viral" in modern Internet speak. To propagate, to organically spread and grow on its own.

My father, who worked with MLK and the SCLC referred to his work in the civil rights and union movements as being "a propagandist for the right reasons" -- a dry jest that should have made your brain trainwreck instantly if you are paying attention. He was an incredibly smart and funny -- and very ethical man. I inherited the family business, which is why I ended up as founding executive director of the Tor Project. You of course are welcome to judge that bit of work on its own basis. I didn't write the software, I just took it from a framing as a gray hat cypherpunk project to being the acclaimed champion of human rights, journalism, democracy rights activists, and apple pie in about six months flat along with seven figures of funding most of it from the US government without which we'd probably be dead meat from the NSA now (IMNSHO, and I don't speak for the current project's management -- only a volunteer these days).

Ultimately, my point is, I've worked with folks in government, and around Alex. And I've worked around these health care exchanges from RomneyCare here in MA.

The fact that they can relaunch, have a database like this work, even get this decision through, is pretty damn revolutionary. That it worked and they didn't get immediately hosed for it -- you have no idea how risky this was for them on an eGov basis, especially in "obamacare" where they have targets on their back for everything.

Give the dudes credit for a little excessive celebration. It's not propaganda -- and if it were...?

Triangulation sucks too.