seatdrummer

>That means statements like “black people are monkeys” and “Koreans are the scum of the earth” are subject to removal. But then, so is “men are trash.”

>See the problem? If you remove dehumanizing attacks against gender, you may block speech designed to draw attention to a social movement like #MeToo. If you allow dehumanizing attacks against gender, well, you’re allowing dehumanizing attacks against gender. And if you do that, how do you defend other “protected” groups from similar attacks?

I'm not sure if the author is taking a pretty objective approach to the problem and therefore considering all possibilities, or if they really unironically believe what's stated in the second paragraph, but in any case, especially the latter, I am shocked about this line of thinking.

The dissonance between how you would like to treat men, and how you would like to treat women and how you believe all genders should be treated the same versus the second paragraph should be the end of the argument.

The fact that a conversation like this even takes place is absurd. It's lawyering a way apply restrictions on one group while making another group exempt from the rule. The motivations are clear, how can a company even entertain these ideas, let alone implement them.

As an aside, at what point do we stop an interesting discussion due to a limit of studies or data.

If something hasn't been measured, or hasn't been measured since 2016, can we really just give in.

If the question is about media being sympathetic, in recent years, toward the oppression that every black person in the u.s. experiences every day. Does data from the 90s really trump no data at all? Isn't the question about recent times for which nobody might have evidence for ordering either case.

And if there is no study, can a sound and valid argument still be made.

You are really on the offensive here. The concerns you've raised here remind me of a time when I let news and social media pull me into that disgusting culture war on oppression, equality, collectivism, and individuality.

I still have my stance but I've found that people that get sucked in, on both sides, will get hypersensitive about detecting their opposition, and then they project all of the ideas they dislike the most onto the person in real life who exhibits a hint of it.

You might find that you are trying to find things to be angry about. You might feel very strongly that masculinity is toxic but you don't really have any examples in your life except for the two and a half times you got cat called. The "gamers" that hate minorities and women might be on the forefront of your mind, but only because you spend too much time consuming narratives online.

Genuinely how many people would be concerned about toxic masculinity if the internet didn't exist. How many people would be concerned about the culture war at all if outrage couldn't be shared.

As much as you might like to blame it on a particular skin color or gender, your happiness and peace of mind is your responsibility. If you are frustrated, angry, or sad about gamers, the gamers aren't the problem, you are losing control of your mind.

The criticism is something like Twitter enables the worst in humans, it's a platform that can unjustly destroy one's character and career. From a product perspective, its working. Yet it is still a net negative, at least that's the claim.

When someone is being doxxed, and mobs are forming, it's usually happening on that platform.

You are also able to come out of it with a different perspective you'd never otherwise gain due to up and down voting being missing.

A merit of 4chan is that you get exposed to content you don't like.

It may be a malware vector, but if it's tied to the service, you should not use the service and demand the ads be fixed before you will remove the ad blocker.

In other words you use the service when you are satisfied with it's cost, instead of using the service and then negotiating the transaction posthoc.

I think you are experiencing the same gene pool concerns a racist would experience.

In the end the only thing one can really do it have your own kids.

Humans have always had to stay home/work in order to take care of kids. In my opinion every person is born with instinct to be useful and fullfil some purpose beyond hedonism.

If nobody thought like this you wouldn't have people building sky scrapers and collecting garbage in the winter

Do you think the person you replied to would really think their world view is based off the two paths you've listed? Also deferring to a video game for philosophical discussion....

Life is hard and it will demand hard people.

As an individual, its difficult to bear responsibility for racism (whether it be calling out that homeless guy saying the n word, fighting for legislation, having empathy for every story you read on the internet). Its detrimental to a person's mental health and it seems like when someone (most people) is having a hard time reducing life stress, figuring out how to live a good life, build a family, succeed at work, etc. Its exhausting.

And its not just racism, its sexism, classism, homophobia, xenophobia, transphobia, child soldiers in Africa, terrorism abroad, FGM, corruption, homelessness, child abuse, cartel violence, drug epidemics... Seriously impossible to grasp. And moreover, the vast majority of people do not publicly observe offenses at the same rate as people who receive offenses so most of the time its just concerns that one reads off the internet or hears second hand. All this stress and empathy over things that don't even exist in your sights... I know many people will think this is a gross argument, that I am saying to remain ignorant or inactive while people are being oppressed, but at some point you have to just throw your hands up, resolve to do the right thing when you encounter a problem and live your own life.

This problem is something that ted kaczynski wrote about in detail and I think its an even more important problem now with information spreading so quickly, so much call to activism, and even dramatization of issues.

Look, I am speaking from personal and anecdotal experience, however its so blindly obvious for myself and coworkers. The amount of dissonance between my beliefs and my actions at work feels like a micro scale version of what life would be like under a surveillance state. The difference in openness between the two large groups of people that have opposing views at work are massive. Both groups have smart people, both groups have good intentions, the ones that are silent are not silent because they hold chauvinist views, they are silent because the other side is actually bigoted.

I wish you could do a study on it, but you can't right now.

>so as not to make women literally uncomfortable around you, how outrageous that you should have to do this.

One could make a similar argument for not calling out racism to avoid making people uncomfortable.

Honestly don't see the problem with that line. I can't imagine how many times a woman has referred to her husband as another one of the kids to take care of.

Its not shitty, its insanely normal (and its a joke) and youre just being dramatic.

Really? Do you think that women simultaneously being the victim and being empowered, the company bending over backwards to increase female numbers and create special awards/events specifically for women won't create some frustration among the innocent male employees who have to pretend like they have to change the way they act around women to avoid talking over them, watching their time around women ( things like saying "Id love to go out but my ball and chain won't let me go"). The slightest criticism against women needs to be considered through a lens of misogyny and if it's plausible you keep quiet. It's just as simple as ignoring whatever the diversity efforts say about you and the situation at work. Don't divulge even a glimpse that you aren't along for the ride. Honestly sometimes silence or lack of enthusiasm makes you suspect.

It's very obvious that gender equality being achieved in the workplace is not via reduced discrimination, but by hiring women at a very flexible bar. It's so painfully obvious in my organization and frankly im embarrassed for the qualified women who are getting tarnished by the changes.

>It's not any better at fostering that things over any other shared interest

What is another shared interest that builds positive community bonds at or above the scale of religion.

Its a tradeoff right? Are making smart phone apps that provide entertainment but get people more glued to their screens part of making the world worse?

Does driving a car make the world worse, or eating beef, or producing human waste, or purchasing goods make by sweatshop workers, or eating vegetables picked by underpaid illegal immigrants, making city rent more expensive by increasing demand with your high paying salary, or taking a spot in line at the dmv, or profiting from all of your unearned privilege (whether that is because you are a man, white, tall, come from 2 parent home, good health, software job, etc.) while others with less unfortunate circumstances are become more poor relative to yourself (thus producing more inequality). I'm sorry but there are a very high number of people who would literally kill another human for that much money in one year.

That much money at that age is incredibly difficult to find, and wondering why a 27yr old person should turn that down in favor of some other 50k a year startup or a well establish, neutral, software company at 80k a year is a little strange.

If someone paid me 100k a year on the condition that I make the world a worse place, I'd do it by just continuing to exist, or I could just drop a candy wrapper on the ground once a day.

its a tradeoff from doing that or making 250k+ at the age of 27

You can also work on instagram, oculous, or just take the time to become a better engineer.

There are many reasons someone could be angry. Someone might be impatient, low on sleep, frustrated they other person is being offensive. its as if one was debating flat earth theory and the other person was making ad hominem attacks, denying facts, picking at technicalities of your argument instead of the meat of your point (never say always or never because someone will find a single instance of that thing happening or not happening and suddenly they have side stepped the whole line of argument).

On the other hand if you are handling a skilled debater, and they have snuck in some false premises that have led you down a road to agreeing that abortion is objectively wrong and shouldn't be legal, that may make someone upset. It could just be that the person is upset because they feel strongly about their stance but they aren't sure where down the line of the argument they went off track. OR someone could actually be inconsistent with their thinking and when they are shown that they are wrong, they get upset.

It can't possibly just be that when you are angry you are probably are wrong, unless you only get angry when you are wrong.

The painful truth is that reproductive worth is something that the woman is facing right now. Its fleeting and nearly gone.

Its also a type of worth that stands above most.There are very few jobs or hobbies the average person would be willing to die for in the same way they would for their infant child.

This is hilarious anti-religion rhetoric, complete unwillingness to have evolution and religion in the same sentence. Twisting from how religion historically promotes community into the content of the religion itself. The content is irrelevant, what is important is the sense of community and bonding that religion has offered people for forever.

There are different reproductive strategies, but for the majority of men, raising a child to adulthood has been the way to go.

its entirely possible that certain beliefs common on 4chan strike true. This isn't so much about making her struggle a meme, but acknowledging that youth is fleeting and its particularly hard for women.

Coming to terms with this reality for a woman is even more terrifying than a man because her bodily clock is ticking and pretty soon she will have little opportunity to have a child and dare I say, attract her ideal man. Its a call for more traditional values, to acknowledging that the deal is different for men and women, and its a criticism of responses like this which tell women to embrace being a free spirit when all she wants is stability and steady growth.

Traditional values are truly counter culture in the west, and thats why pol will emphasize it.

EDIT: 4chan also likes it because it serves their tendency toward genetic determinism.

They will match Facebook/Microsoft/Amazon/Google's 110k salary + bonus + stock that you can get in Seattle (As a college grad)?

Even smaller firms are giving away jobs for 150k salary for just a couple years of experience.

I think if you did a survey on HN users you would see that most of them think that racism is in fact a problem - that it is not good.

Also, I think its important to consider your comments holistically when seeing how they are received by the community. Of course you believe you comment communicates one thing, but in addition to that you have tone, other claims, and defenses. Any of which can result in a downvote.

You think that HN is a hostile place?

I had this exact issue straight from college into MS. My team was built off a ton of legacy and getting ramped up on all the engineering systems and testing made it take about a month before I could even make a check in. Velocity is very low at the start in my case. I was there to support new engineers who were completely disoriented in the same way. I was able to start working effectively after a few months and my anxiety was coming in an out as i was getting exposed to new engineering systems that required brand new ramp up. On my team I was sensitive to new people getting lost and received lots of favor on my team as we grew.

Don't let it get to weeks where you are not accomplishing anything. Escalate your issues sooner than later, get to know the right engineers so you aren't moving to any individual too many times. Sometimes there are just hard roadblocks and you don't want to get in a position where its been 2 months and you are stuck on something without showing that you have been actively trying to get over it.

If things are really bad, you may consider moving internally to reset your reputation and maybe land on a team where things don't require so much ramp up in order to contribute.

Welcome to FANG.

I understand, but to be clear, AA is not about undoing all injustice. Its about treating everybody fairly but accounting for people who are dug in at 0. Making it from the projects is really different than making it from a suburb. If asians are in the suburbs along with the whites, equal treatment is exactly fair.

The point is that we need to move on. AA makes it so people who have fallen far behind have a chance to catch up.

Do you think affirmative action is something like pay back or reparations for all the stuff people who were white did?

AA is supposed to be about raising groups who have been systemically disadvantaged to raise them to a fair playing field. This isn't supposed to be everybody except whites get help. Its supposed to be help for those whose racial identity is the reason why they are doing so poorly. Asian Americans are doing well in the U.S. [1].

The only way you can sell AA is if you say its to help people by race. Its not to sell it as a program to disadvantage whites...

The whole issue is that AA for race really generalizes advantages and disadvantages for a race and trades advancement of the race in exchange for some merit and fair consideration for the individual. Maybe there is a balance, maybe its gone to far, maybe it hasnt gone far enough. But the point is that it pisses people off because they are no longer treated like an individual and a person unfairly carries the history of people who had the same skin color as themselves.

If a white person struggles to get somewhere they can now blame AA. If a black person gets in they can have an internal struggle wondering if they really earned it, as well as the judgment that they might've only made it due to their race.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_U...