ptom

I agree about the mass adoption threshold, but even the current breed of tech makes the workday-in-VR feat possible: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28678041

I made several arguments along those lines in this article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28678041

For me it comes down to functionality, focus, comfort, and productivity. Convenience too, but it took a lot of setup and tuning to get to that point, so the net "convenience" gain is probably neutral. These days I don't want to work any other way.

I use the Quest 2 almost exclusively for my day job as a programmer (any time I don't have to be on camera in meetings), and have been using VR to do this for years - I'm the guy behind this article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28678041

The Quest 2 is remarkably capable for its form factor, but has some significant limitations and requires a lot of babysitting to get it tuned "just so" to make it that productive. Reaching that flow state, or even making it more productive than a traditional physical screen layout, isn't particularly accessible, certainly not yet on a mass appeal level. So yeah, it can work, but there's a LOT of room for improvement.

That was my experience with the Tuscany demo from the DK1 days - my brain craved the missing sensations, such as the change in temperature from sunlight falling on my face, or the texture of the worn stone pillars, the humidity on various surfaces. But then thinking back on it later, I didn't remember the screen door effect, or many of the things that didn't work - the visual memory was as though I'd actually been in that place.

Yes I do!

1. WiFi direct, or as direct as you can make it - which means the computer is either the AP itself, or wired directly to it in order to keep the hops short.

2. Measurement can be done via a companion ping that looks at frame timing, but that's kind of a secondary measure. Best way to really check it is with high-speed video capture of a hardware display and the mirrored content in the headset, of a high-(temporal-)resolution stopwatch. I can also watch a YouTube video streamed with the desktop to the headset, and listen to it on headphones wired straight to the laptop, with no discernible offset (and this is with years of audio engineering experience) - the error bars on that subjective experience are much larger, but demonstrate that it's at least usable.

3. Hardware acceleration, via Nvidia NVENC, and rather than use Immersed's own virtual screen tech, I usually rely on HDMI dummy plugs ($12 for a 3 pack) to maximize GPU throughput (and not cannibalize CPU cycles).

4. Not ALL content is going to move at this speed even in the best of circumstances - I have a low overall rate of change, which means the delta streaming of the NVENC encoder is super short: not much data to grab, not much data to send.

I can absolutely get worse rates than this if I want to push a ton of video content, or if I were to use it for gaming, etc. I don't think everyone would have this level of performance for every use case, but it's what I've been able to achieve and maintain.

Author here; no hand waving was intended, and I do make note of it in the FAQ.

There's a lot of VR content I still can't handle, even though I've built a tolerance to many others. But for a stationary experience like productivity, where I at most walk in a very small area while at the standing desk, it's not applicable - I'm running 100fps+, and the 6DoF tracking does an excellent job.

Well... I'm the author of the article, so that still only counts as 1.

I think the Vive Focus 3 has learned this lesson, and ships with what looks to be a very serviceable strap.

OP here; some of each, actually. The resolution does drop off at the edges, especially with more aggressive foveated rendering (which I turn off, so as to get as much clarity as possible). I do end up moving my head, but it's casual rather than quick, certainly not like darting around. The end result is improved ergonomics, too - used to be, with a fixed monitor my neck would become very tight and snap/crack horribly when stretching after a long session. The frequent movement in VR has completely eliminated that issue while working.

OP here; it takes some getting used to. I've adapted well to it, but I also: replaced the facial interface, moved to a halo mount for better balance and reduced facial pressure, and keep everything clean and cool (small or medium desk fan, depending on the day).

OP here; motion sickness doesn't really apply to the productivity setup, since nothing's in motion (physically or visually). Good tracking and high framerates take care of most motion sickness for room-scale activities - those in which your physical and virtual motions are well aligned. But experiences which simulation motion are still likely to induce nausea unless you get your "VR legs".

As for the FB devices - available audience and cost of doing business. They also support the Vive Focus 3 now though, and others are in the works.

Oof - $999, worse than I thought:

> Every Oculus Quest for business costs $999.

https://skarredghost.com/2020/05/22/oculus-business-vr-price...

OP here - Doesn't run this particular software, and it's prohibitively expensive unless you've got corporate sponsorship. Would love to give it a try, though.

OP here - I suffer from migraines as well; being able to work in a black void with minimal interface has helped me be functional in situations I'd otherwise just have to stay in bed, triptans notwithstanding. I didn't want to bring it up in the article though because I didn't want to make false promises or urge migraine sufferers to adopt it - in the early days of VR, the bad software IPD management in the DK2 would actually trigger migraines for me.

As an accessibility tool I'm delighted to see it working for another migraine sufferer though.

OP here - It takes a long time for research and consumer hardware to align.

The only 2 that run this particular software right now are the Quest, and the Vive Focus 3 (which cost $1000 more). There are other virtual office interface options available, though, and those run on WMR or any Steam compatible headset.

None others that support Linux that I'm aware of, though.

OP here - please work up to it, don't dive in all at once.

And come hang out on the Discord - would love to talk about your new-user experience, and help make it work for you.

OP here - fortunately my meeting load isn't as absurd as some place, since this company figured out "remote work" long before COVID forced it upon people who don't know how to go 10 minutes without a meeting.

I join most of my Hangouts and Zooms as an avatar, using a virtual webcam from within the software. If it's personal, sensitive, or requires more professionalism, I'll still "resurface" and use a regular webcam - but it's a special occasion.

It's currently fixed distance, until the varifocal tech improves. That distance is about 1.3m/4'3".

You can change the effective stereographic distance though, so things look like they're pretty far away (or super close, if that's your thing), and the movement parallax, and eye convergence agree - but the resolving power is still the same for all objects in the visual field.

The "business" class Quest does not require the FB account. Same hardware, $800 IIRC.

OP here. Of important note, I also have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, a connective tissue disorder that makes me especially prone to muscle stress and joint instability.

Good ergonomics apply in VR just as they do in any occupational setup. I was suffering from cervical lordosis before ever going into VR - but because I've used it to increase my range of motion throughout the day, and eliminate my need to ever hunch or squint, I'm feeling much better than before going full-time VR.

But: don't do it all at once. Work up to it, balance the weight appropriately, position screens properly, and take breaks! Yes, I do 8-10 hours a day in VR - but not all at once.

Ah, but I'm running Linux. :) (oh - and I'm the OP)

They also support Mac, and yes, Windows for those unable to escape the pull of Redmond.

OP here. I use Reloptix lenses, $70 and worth every penny - the difference they make the VR cannot be overstated.

OP, here. I'm hoping that this article helps change that perception, get people talking and open minds to the possibility.

There's definitely better hardware out there than the Q2 - it just doesn't run the software I need yet.

Valve has great hardware, no question - but this also wasn't about "how to make VR comfortable", it was how I personally make it productive for me. The Immersed software has, until very recently, been Oculus only. They now support the Vive Focus 3, which I hope to try some day (when it's in the budget, or someone notices my article and starts comping me hardware <- subtle hint).

...and I do use (and mention) prescription inserts - $70 at Reloptix, and I'm delighted with the product and my interactions with the company.

OP here! I've been keeping a very close eye on the SimulaVR project for a while. I agree with most of what you've got here, and would love to be able to try it out in the future.

One question I've got about the window management system - I make heavy use of virtual desktops so I can swap several windows out simultaneously (all my source code on one screen, my database GUIs on another, etc.). I'd run out of room using a spatially tiled VR interface unless I had "sets" or other groups of windows (or different vantage points); how is that being approached? Is there a "virtual desktop" equivalent?

Any chance of coopting other hardware as part of your development/deployment strategy? (Vive Focus 3, maybe?)

I'll definitely continue to watch the project - please let me know if I can ever be of service in the endeavor. You guys are building an awesome future.

Author of the article here - these are really cool, thanks for sharing! I'd not seen these at the time, they were definitely working on good stuff - the technology is taking a while to catch up.

Hi! OP here. The screens are physically close, but the lenses give it an effective focal range of about 1.3m / 4'2", further than most monitors are placed. It feels a lot further, though.

As other posters have shared, the bigger issue is that the focal plane is static, at least until the varifocal technology matures. Getting good eye exercise outside of VR is important, just like it is with all-day computer work.

Cheers!

Hi! OP here - the discretization effect is also known as the "screen door" effect. That can be even worse when the VR is trying to provide a picture of a picture.

It's improved a little bit, but still takes a lot of tweaking to maximize readability. I'd say it's "maybe passable" for most users without a lot of patience to do that tuning and compromise in favor of density over beauty.

So it might not be there for you yet - but it's moving in the right direction.

Hi! OP here. It absolutely can cause issues, and the same occupational hygiene and ergonomics apply in VR as they do for sitting at a desk.

So while I spend 8-10 hours a day in VR, I don't do it all at once - I do take breaks, which means walking the dog 3 times a day right now, in addition to bio breaks or just stretching my legs a bit.

Hi! OP here - I use a GoQuestVR Halo strap. I'd originally purchased it for my Quest 1, and adapted it to fit the Quest 2. There are several makers of this form factor now, though.