3,223 karma · joined January 31, 2010
Quote I like:
"Make game of that which makes as much of thee" -- Omar Khayaam
So they missed the USSR collapsing... and the fall of the Berlin wall... and the Arab Spring... basically every gigantic sociopolitical change for the past 70 years has caught the CIA by surprised and that not being the case is literally their only job.
In a situation that affects so many people, it may seem unwise to do experiments and try things where we can not say with certainty what effects they might have, though we admit they may be substantial. The ethics are very dim on that front. But the alternative has to be considered. We do not have 'generally accepted treatment' to turn to and rely on. We only have other experiments, albeit while not calling them experiments and not treating them as if their outcomes are in doubt, simply forging ahead with blinders on. I can't imagine an argument that would justify that as more ethical than earnestly doing experiments.
There is little similar between what was suggested by the person you're replying to and any policy which simply throws both opinions out. What he was describing was engaging with the content of an argument, not its speaker. This is proper. This is how things should be decided. "Who gets on TV" is an antiquated limitation which generated the difficult situation where someone has to make that call, and the unrelated constraint of needing to break for commercial or move on to the next topic in order to keep the audience engaged or keep to a programming schedule exacerbates it. The way the medium is used makes it impossible for a positions justification to be explained, only the position with no justification can be presented. This simply should not be done, but is the sort of thing which due to technological limitation was done out of desperation for a time. Commercial interests, of course, still motivate this approach, but those commercial interests, I think we can both agree, are not intimately tied to the ability of the medium to assist the audience in coming to a nuanced understanding of available views.
There is a very big difference between the ideal situation, where in every instance you have infinite time and access to all possible relevant information, and the practical situation with limited time (not 'oh I can't pay attention to one argument for 45 minutes' but 'if we do not do something before Tuesday, hundreds could die') and resources. It is not incorrect to discuss the ideal situation, because it will always be present and always provide the limiting constraints on the practical case. While you can be in a position where you could argue 'we should trust the expert because we have exactly and only 2 choices and his authority is better even though he can not explain it', even in that situation it must be admitted that what you are doing is wrong. It is a wrong thing which is being forced by circumstance to be done. In the ideal case, you are guaranteed truth. In the practical case, you try to do the best you can. In the practical case, the redneck might have a point (farmers, for instance, had been talking about global dimming for years before scientists gathered the data and became concerned... we were able to reverse it, but not before the pollution from England caused the jetstream to shift and led to several years of intense drought and famine (remember Live Aid? That was global dimmings work) in Ethiopia. Then you have cases where a doctor says other doctors should wash their hands between doing autopsies and delivering babies. He was not right because he had authority. In fact, the argument against him was that he was not respected enough in his field and that it was insulting to suggest that the doctors killing women and children left and right were actually at fault. Those were the more respected members of the medical community. We were saddled with leaded gasoline for decades because the community of research chemists all agreed it was safe and did so for financial benefit and based on very 'common sense' arguments (lead is so heavy! It will fall to the ground and not travel far from the road, how would it get in the air?). When a toxicologist reported the danger, he was met with insult and told he was entreating on chemists territory. Because people trusted the authority of the professional research chemists, he got ignored. Because of them having their authority trusted, they could not afford to even investigate the truth. If they lost that authority, and the trust, they would be done. All unnecessary and a tragic bit of scientific history every researcher should know. Those authorities are just people. They can be just as selfish, mistake-prone, prideful, etc as anyone else. It is not reason to dismiss them. It is reason to expect them to present you with solid evidence, solid argument, and to NEVER ask you to 'just trust them'. The same applies for the redneck. If he provides solid evidence, solid argument, and never asks you to 'just trust him', you review his argument and evidence exactly the same.
Or, you could check out my personal introduction to the Tao... The Tao of Pooh. I read it when I was a teenager, thinking it positively absurd that anyone would create a book attempting to explain an ancient school of philosophy through Winnie the Pooh. It's not absurd. I found it sublime, and the idea of taoism made a powerful impression on me and probably played a sizable role in driving me to further study of philosophy.
The correct context is necessary, though. Equally as important as both participants (or more) using the same language, all participants must be interested and willing in participating. I would recommend, if in something like a general chat environment, that you ask if they're interested in discussing the topic. If they're not, then move along. If they are, make it clear from the outset that you want to understand why they believe what they are claiming, what led them to the understanding, what they believe they gain from it, what evidence they might have, etc. Asking questions, well made ones, can often go a long way. But sometimes people just want to rant and aren't in the headspace to have a sit-down real discussion.
There will still be times, regretfully frequent, where it will become clear that either one of the participants is engaging in bad faith or, more common, do not actually understand their own position clearly. For many, their beliefs are accumulated like flotsam as they drift through life rather than through deliberate consideration of evidence. Those people might benefit from hearing you speak, but not from a back-and-forth dialog. There is very little general appreciation for finding out one is wrong. Most people flinch away from it and take it as an insult and will interpret honest questions like 'Why do you think that is?' as snide dismissal of their own positions, reading it incorrectly as an assumption that they are clearly wrong and you are just trying to figure out how they ever managed to become such an imbecile. There can't be any honest discussion with people in this position. It will just devolve into them shouting no matter how calm you yourself remain.
There are always opportunities to engage with people honestly, for some people that takes a long time. Often once they realize that your goal is not to make them look or feel like a fool, that your goal really is to understand a different position or even just explain your own so that it is understood even if not necessarily agreed with, most people will become more willing. Some will only have earnest conversations with those they are familiar and close with. As with all human interaction, it depends heavily on context.
I have always liked and tended towards a Socratic means of explanation (Socrates taught primarily by asking questions, getting the other person to essentially lead themselves to understand what he meant through recreating the reasoning process he himself followed) but I realized after awhile that a lot of people find this approach highly difficult to engage with. They often see it as you 'forcing' them to say things and 'putting words in their mouth'. This happens particularly with people who don't have a reason-based basis for their beliefs but more of an emotional connection to the ideas and don't like how saying certain things 'feels' even if they can admit intellectually that they are actually true.
Argumentation is an art. It probably can't ever be made 'simple', but it is a critical part of our society and time invested in learning how to do it better through practice or study will usually be richly rewarded (at least in an intellectual and personal sense).
Imagine if we woke up to news stories saying eggs were contaminated by salmonella. And nothing else. Just a blanket fearmongering piece about eggs across the board with no mention of which producer in which region was affected, no information about what timespan the affected eggs were purchased in, nothing. Just 'people are getting sick from eggs and doctors cant guarantee you aren't next!'
People placed into situations of total sensory deprivation very often see their conscious self dissolve into 'hallucinations' across all their senses.
Quadriplegics that acquire their paralysis from disease or accident suffer psychological and emotional changes which are more substantial than would be expected from the injuries alone (I was never clear on how exactly this was distinguished, so take it with a grain of salt).
I have never understood why people who talk of 'uploading their consciousness' or just creating a human-like consciousness in a computer would assume that the simulated consciousness would function markedly different from, in the best case, a person experiencing profound sensory deprivation. Consciousness can not be sustained if the feedback loop of the body, perception, and environment is broken. Consciousness is an emergent property of a feedback loop. If there's no feedback loop, the property doesn't emerge.
Watching the Netflix 'More Human Than Human' documentary, one of the people featured commented when comparing Siri and the AI in the movie Her that systems only need to become 'a little more sophisticated' to reach that level. That is a big problem. It's not 'a little more sophisticated' at all. It requires emotions, and the vast majority of people do not even know what emotions are. I'll spoil it for you. Emotions are a trained response, the product of neurological feedback to the response of prediction operating on primarily internal perception. Often the relation of moving from one topic to another in a conversation is not based upon the subject matter of the text. It is based upon shared cultural experiences garnered over a lifetime and similarities in the emotions evoked by certain things.
Even pursuing the goal of creating a 'truly intelligent machine' is dangerous, philosophically speaking. What happens when we create a bot that does antisocial things? We shit it down. We scrap the project. We saw that with Tay by Microsoft. This is dangerous. It is clear that once we DO produce a human-like intelligence... it will be better than us. It won't have any of the rough edges or not-safe-for-work parts. At everything we value about human beings, it will top us. We can look at history to see how humanity responds when something which was previously seen as 'fundamentally human' is taken out of our quiver. It is not pretty. The folk legend of John Henry shows that the man who is willing to kill himself to be better than a machine is not an idiot - he is a hero to motivate the masses. I don't think it is a stretch to imagine a future when humanities worst qualities become what we see as virtue because AI 'can't' do it. A robot can't hate. It can't be violent, bigoted, angry, etc. When that is the only thing humanity has left that defines them as 'more' than the world... why should we be sure they won't come to see that as their virtue? We have already seen all of those things valued as virtue in our history when similar pressures weren't even at play.
Then there's the more unknown approach. A machine-based intelligence which is not given a body. That's really the big question mark. We can be confident, very confident, that it will not be recognizably human in any way, shape, or form. Most of our attributes as humans are derived directly or indirectly from the biological facts of our existence. An organism sharing none of those things will share none of those attributes. And it will be weird in surprising ways. I don't think there is any reasonable danger of such an intelligence "taking over the world" in any substantial way. All conflict is rooted in resource contention. And we have nothing that such an intelligence would want or could use. If it wants energy, the only real resource we would share a need for, it would be best off launching itself into space and sitting in orbit with a bunch of solar panels. We don't have any idea what a singular intelligence, one with no concept of "individual" because there is only one of them, would be like. One which has no inherent mortality. One which does not deal with disease. One which has no concept of family. One which has no sense of age. These are things which define us and make us human, and it will lack all of them. It would probably be a great challenge to convince such an intelligence that we existed, that we were real, that we could communicate with it, and get it to want to. It could simply conclude that it will wait for 10,000 years and hope we are extinct by then.
If that danger is avoided, the broad concept itself might have merit, most especially in replacing the way we deal with filesystems which should have changed decades ago. I believe that storage should be separated into mutable and immutable categories. Immutable data (software packages and the like) should be managed by a universal networked content-addressable versioned immutable data store. Something like Perkeep mixed with the Internet. If you did something like 'apt-get install firefox', it would lookup the current versions GUID from a DNS-esque service and check the local store, then the local network store, and then hit the Internet store of data if necessary to pull down the content. It could be thought of like extending storage from registers, L1 cache, L2 cache, L3 cache, main memory, disk outward to the network, with data traversing each level only when necessary as a kind of overgrown cache control. Very storage-constrained contexts could purge anything immutable with confidence that it would be able to pull it back in when necessary. Call it 'swap to the cloud' if you're a marketer who doesn't realize how horrific that sounds to technical folks.
Mutable storage would be handled as a local database, it would be all of your personal content and similar, stored and indexed with ways that are efficient for data which can change rapidly and which must be preserved as it may be the only copy. Individual disks should, ideally, be presented to the user as a unified whole with reliability information baked in and managed by the OS in the background. Whether and which data is replicated, striped, etc should just be something people set with their hardware providing maximums (if you have 3 drives, you can choose 300% reliability as its max and based on the drive reliability, age, SMART status, etc, the system will rebalance what is stored where in order to best preserve the users desires, only bothering the user when things cross a certain threshold of uncertainty). Data is important. Not just for corporations, but for everyone.
Software Transactional Memory should be built into the hardware level and supported at the OS level, and can be supported at the OS level before hardware has a chance to catch up and accelerate it.
The OS should present itself sort of like Smalltalk "images" operate to the user, albeit with most of the moving pieces covered by a thin veil unless you launch a 'system edit' sort of mode which would make the running objects editable and present live development tools. Code editors should not simply be text editors, but tools which know they are operating on code and treat it as such, allowing one to operate on an AST or syntax tree view for certain operations.
Vector graphics and the concept of graphics 'surfaces' rather than a simple framebuffer should be the 'step 0' of supporting moving to a more modern system. Take advantage of modern pixel densities on high-resolution screens.
Why should an easily measurable metric which has meaningful value exist? It doesn't seem obvious to me that it should at all. Determining the capability of a researcher is inherently a very complex intellectual task. The desire is to reduce that task to something which removes the need for the person doing the evaluation to read and understand the produced research, or to even understand the field of study in many cases. Perhaps, instead, those who are put in charge of things like awarding grant funding, granting tenure at universities, and deciding who to hire to teach ought to be expected and required to evaluate the research on its merits. This would greatly increase the intellectual sophistication and capability needed for people in those positions, but the alternative will always be fairly easily exploitable because it is easier to goose a metric than to do solid research.
We see the shortcomings of trying to reduce complex intellectual challenges to checklists or metrics all the time. And we simply ignore the alternative of relying upon intellectually capable people meeting the challenge. Personally, I don't understand why.
All those stories about how automation and technology would enable people to work less have two sides. They're very appealing with workers. They're grim horror stories for those who define themselves by how many people they control and how much value they get those people to produce for a low price.
Despite the fact that white collar crime does more economic damage and even kills more people every year than street crime, it is punished very rarely and then typically only lightly. That's a social issue, and the majority of society are complicit in it, fighting for tougher laws to control the middle and lower class while fighting against substantial penalties for crime committed by the upper class. The Protestant Work Ethic says that hard work, endurance of suffering, and virtuous character is the only way to wealth, so the public presumes that is how the wealthy got wealthy. It is almost never true, however.
Every choice has positives and negatives, however. Robots are good at some things, and bad at others. This could lead to an interesting clash. Robots, modular manufacturing, etc is very good at producing large numbers of identical copies of a product. There is no guarantee that society will continue to value this over production of a wide variety instead. If every production run is in numbers of dozens rather than millions, the advantages of automation start to falter. It's also important not to underestimate the power of human brain flaws. One of the flaws of the human brain is 'essentialism'. It's a complicated concept, but boils down to people might see robot-produced goods as not as 'rich' as human-produced goods, even when they are identical. Essentialism is the belief that an objects history is somehow attached to it. And if society decides that an object which has a human hand in it is far more valuable than a 'soulless' robot-produced good... whoops. That could seriously limit what products robots are actually able to bring value to. Human sense of value is what rules the economy, not objective value.
There were many tradeoffs made back when production centralized into factories and big companies. All of those tradeoffs are up for renegotiation, and those who simply assume the choices made 100+ years ago are going to stand will be, I think, sorely disappointed.
One factor that so many analysts across the spectrum fail to account for is something that I think is going to lead to a great surprise for a lot of people. All of this technology, all of the data platforms, robots, etc.... it's CHEAP. Everyone focuses so closely on how these technologies will affect the factory floor, the centralized gigaproduction facility, they completely miss the fact that the distributed back yard shed operation can outcompete them. It doesn't have the overhead and the limitations of those centralized factories. Advancements in distribution, shipping, and logistics are available to everyone for a pittance. Services like Uber at their heart provide nothing but some server space for some software. That 'server space' can have its necessity disappear into the ether with distributed computing platforms simply aggregating the compute of its users. Not something currently regularly done, but there is no technical impediment to such a thing. And software like that has a tendency to just pop out of nowhere some weekend and change the landscape immediately. The software part could be handled like any FOSS project. Uber is a center in a system that doesn't need a center. (I'm not saying centers don't have advantages, I am saying that their presence is not an iron clad 100% absolute necessity for the system to work.)
At the same time companies have been abandoning every bit of value they ever offered to workers since the 1980s, welching on pensions they tricked people into working for them with, adopting wage stagnation so that workers have to jump ship every few years to remain solvent, etc... technology has been making it such that those displaced workers could pretty easily outcompete the companies that ejected them. The companies are still restrained by Baby Boomer execs who refuse to leave and refuse to abandon the management practices drilled into them in relation to manufacturing and retail business. They're blind to the outrageous overhead and inefficiencies of their offices and practices because, as far as they see it, 'this is how it has always been done.'
It is impossible to predict when any of these things will come home to roost. It is also nearly impossible to explain just how large of a change we are in for. It is on the scale of the Industrial Revolution which created central factories in the first place. That led to urban centers exploding in population. It changed how we built houses. It changed the moral norms of society. It changed the food we ate. It changed how we married. It changed family structure. It is not much of an exaggeration to say it changed everything. And now it's fundamental tenets (that production must be centralized, that distribution networks must be built, that large numbers of relatively low education physical laborers capable of extended periods of mindless repetitive actions are necessary, etc) no longer hold. It will probably take a long time. And it will unfortunately probably come with a great deal of conflict and bloodshed. That's just based on how history has gone in the past with changes of this scale.
Well, he hadn't graduated high school yet. Your points about the expense are probably sound, unless he was doing some serious wheeling and dealing (which is certainly possible, some high schoolers flip sports cars and make money that way, etc) but a large part of that would be an artifact of being one of the first to attempt this sort of thing at this scale. Modern manufacturing often doesn't scale down very well. Such steps are necessary, however, to improve the level of capability of the hobby community in general. The next project will probably be done cheaper, learning where there is flex in the process, etc.