neiljohnson

Disclaimer: I work on the project.

Matrix started out with its early DNA in focusing on the problem of how to create a decentralised e2ee multi-client messenger.

Getting that right took a lot of time and effort, which initially came at the expense of UX.

Elsewhere in the comments, it is clear that there are not many (any?) similar projects out there that solve the same problem, especially to the level of maturity where it is trusted by governments and civil institutions around the world.

So the effort was worth it, and we have the proof points to show that Matrix solves a real problem. Now we need to continue to work hard to create a UX that matches (perhaps exceeds?) the quality of the proprietary, centralised and non e2ee messaging apps that set the UX standards users have come to expect.

This needs to happen both at the protocol level and in the client and server implementations. For me personally, this means Synapse and the Element clients, but we have many quality implementations in the wild.

Matrix 2.0, mentioned above, is part of this initiative, though there is a lot of additional work in progress to both improve existing features (like Spaces and Threads) and add expected features, such as user status.

The post calls out running on Dendrite, which, as a project not under active development, contributes to some of the problems. However, I would not want that to be an excuse, because there is legitimate feedback in the post overall.

If someone reading this is new to the project and wants to host their own server, I'd recommend checking out [ESS Community](https://github.com/element-hq/ess-helm) - though other distributions exist.

Thanks everyone for flying Matrix and sharing your experiences (good and bad), we're getting there.

When Element X first launched, the goal was for it to cover the personal messenger use case. This worked just fine for some people, but for many, feature parity with the old apps and parity with the web experience was a hard blocker.

Both Spaces and Threads are about to land, and there are other lower-profile features that also need rounding out. We would expect full parity by April this year. At which point migration should be an obvious choice.

The complexity associated with Matrix comes from wanting to build a multivendor ecosystem around an open standard, the decentralisation (and federation) to avoid building islands and then implementing things like multi-device e2ee and VoIP in such a context.

However, it is exactly these properties that make it so appealing to an organisation like the EC as they pursue digital sovereignty.

The goals of Matrix have nothing to do with being a social network. You could theoretically build a social network on top of Matrix (Matrix essentially syncs JSON in real-time), but I'm not aware of a project with traction, and more to the point, those projects are not relevant to this discussion. Yes Matrix is resilient to network partitions (that's a good thing for a messenger!), but that seems entirely orthogonal to your point on social networks.

Finally, I don't think it's fair to draw a comparison between the relationship between Kandra Labs and Zulip vs Element and Matrix. Yes Element is a major player in the Matrix eco-system having originally formed to hire the Matrix founding team, but since then many Matrix vendors have sprung up and if Element were to disappear tomorrow Matrix would continue. In fact, this is the whole purpose of having an independent Foundation, which in turn encourages multiple vendors to operate side by side.

You can learn more about Element X migration plans from last weekend's Matrix conference here https://youtu.be/_cahXxr8d-4?si=0b9qyjiEYVpMczDy&t=442

Matrix Con 2024 had a public sector track where various organisations such as NATO, the French Government and the German Healthcare industry outlined the problems they are solving with Matrix.

Though in short, as a large public institution, being able to self-host a secure and decentralised communications network is highly preferable to needing to rely on a centralised service administered by a company in a foreign jurisdiction.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLl5dnxRMP1hX5u7TZ1FNa...

The Matrix Foundation's goals and structure are described here (https://matrix.org/foundation/about/)

Element is a for-profit company, originally set up to hire the Matrix Core team and is the primary driver for many projects in the Matrix eco-system. Element cannot be successful without a thriving Matrix eco-system.

In the early days the line between Element and Matrix was rather blurred, which is why we set up the Foundation as a separate entity in 2018 to ensure that whatever happened to Element, Matrix could continue as an independent entity.

The intention is very much to offer greater financial transparency, in fact doing so is a prerequisite for multiple funding sources.

The Matrix Foundation Governing Board now has a dedicated finance committee, I don't have concrete timelines for publishing, though I would expect this to happen within a small number of months.

https://matrix.org/blog/2024/12/governing-board-first-report...

Not related to the Matrix protocol. https://matrix.org/blog/2024/12/unrelated-cybercriminal-netw...

No, it is an unfortunate naming collision and has nothing to do with the Matrix protocol.

https://matrix.org/blog/2024/12/unrelated-cybercriminal-netw...

Signal and WhatsApp only address the personal messaging usecase, whereas the letter is also talking about wider chat services like Teams.

More to the point, even with e2ee, there is still communication metadata that is leaving your network for a third-party service. In a defense context, you would almost certainly prefer that the data does not leave your network unnecessarily.

In terms of Matrix usability and performance, Matrix 2.0 (https://matrix.org/blog/2024/10/29/matrix-2.0-is-here/) represents a huge step forward and can be used today with compatible clients such as Element X (https://element.io/blog/deep-dive-into-element-x/)

The OP is calling out the need for any large org that depends on a FOSS project to contribute to its maintenance.

Currently we don’t have good mechanisms to make this happen.

The post uses Matrix as an example but it applies equally to any project deemed as critical infrastructure which would of course include XMPP, IRC and plenty of others.

To solve this, FOSS projects must work together to advocate for practical funding mechanisms. This is not a zero sum game.

I found this post to be interesting discussion on how a not profit organisation could practically operate to support FOSS maintenance. It still has risks surrounding infiltration by bad actors, but mitigation is easier since staffers are paid. https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/202x/2024/04/01/OSQI

Synapse has come a long way in the past few years both in terms of reliability and resource usage.

The following give some details:

* https://matrix.org/blog/2020/11/03/how-we-fixed-synapses-sca...

* https://twitter.com/matrixdotorg/status/1434912387933560837

What's more the Synapse team recently announced support for Rust meaning that various performance critical sub-components can be ported over from Python.

* https://matrix.org/blog/2022/09/09/this-week-in-matrix-2022-...

As mentioned elsewhere Dendrite (Go) and Conduit (Rust) are both entirely useable albeit beta implementations.

Element.io / Matrix.org | REMOTE (EU timezones preferred, though not required)| Full-time

Matrix is an open standard for decentralized secure communications. Matrix’s mission is to make messaging as open as email. For those who do not know us, data sovereignty and end-to-end encryption seem to be really potent differentiators especially for governments and civic institutions. The French government has a massive Matrix deployment under the name "Tchap", and the German military began rolling out a similar initiative called "BwMessenger" in November: https://esut.de/en/2020/11/meldungen/24138/matrix-messenger. On the opposite end of the spectrum you've got Mozilla, who replaced their IRC network with open, federated Matrix and saw greater far greater community engagement as a result.

Now is an excellent time to join the team as we try to make a genuine challenge to centralised, walled garden messaging technology.

Our open roles:-

- Engineering Manager/Director, Web https://apply.workable.com/elementio/j/5BF802E8D7/

- Senior Web Developer https://apply.workable.com/elementio/j/39759B827A/

- iOS Developer https://apply.workable.com/elementio/j/3BB922A77E/

- Android Developer https://apply.workable.com/elementio/j/EA73DD587A/

- Safety Engineer https://apply.workable.com/elementio/j/5A0EEDBE0B/

However, whatever your background, feel free to contact me via https://app.element.io on @neilj:matrix.org I am always keen to chat with engineers of all disciplines about the project.

Element.io / Matrix.org | REMOTE (EU timezones preferred, though not required)| Full-time Matrix is an open standard for decentralized secure communications. Matrix’s mission is to make messaging as open as email. For those who do not know us, data sovereignty and end-to-end encryption seem to be really potent differentiators especially for governments and civic institutions. The French government has a massive Matrix deployment under the name "Tchap", and the German military began rolling out a similar initiative called "BwMessenger" in November: https://esut.de/en/2020/11/meldungen/24138/matrix-messenger. On the opposite end of the spectrum you've got Mozilla, who replaced their IRC network with open, federated Matrix and saw greater far greater community engagement as a result.

Now is an excellent time to join the team as we try to make a genuine challenge to centralised, walled garden messaging technology.

Our open roles:-

- Engineering Manager/Director, Web https://apply.workable.com/elementio/j/5BF802E8D7/

- Senior Web Developer https://apply.workable.com/elementio/j/39759B827A/

- iOS Developer https://apply.workable.com/elementio/j/3BB922A77E/

However, whatever your background, feel free to contact me via https://app.element.io on @neilj:matrix.org I am always keen to chat with engineers of all disciplines about the project.

Element.io / Matrix.org | REMOTE (EU timezones preferred, though not required)| Full-time Matrix is an open standard for decentralized secure communications. Matrix’s mission is to make messaging as open as email.

For those who do not know us, data sovereignty and end-to-end encryption seem to be really potent differentiators especially for governments and civic institutions. The French government has a massive Matrix deployment under the name "Tchap", and the German military began rolling out a similar initiative called "BwMessenger" in November: https://esut.de/en/2020/11/meldungen/24138/matrix-messenger. On the opposite end of the spectrum you've got Mozilla, who replaced their IRC network with open, federated Matrix and saw greater far greater community engagement as a result.

Now is an excellent time to join the team as we try to make a genuine challenge to centralised, walled garden messaging technology.

Our open roles:-

- Engineering Manager/Director, Web https://apply.workable.com/elementio/j/5BF802E8D7/

- Senior Web Developer https://apply.workable.com/elementio/j/39759B827A/

- iOS Developer https://apply.workable.com/elementio/j/3BB922A77E/

- Recruiter https://apply.workable.com/elementio/j/6B2F5B5847/

However, whatever your background, feel free to contact me via https://app.element.io on @neilj:matrix.org I am always keen to chat with engineers of all disciplines about the project.

Element.io / Matrix.org | REMOTE (EU timezones preferred, though not required)| Full-time

Matrix is an open standard for decentralized secure communications. Matrix’s mission is to make messaging as open as email.

For those who do not know us, data sovereignty and end-to-end encryption seem to be really potent differentiators especially for governments and civic institutions. The French government has a massive Matrix deployment under the name "Tchap", and the German military began rolling out a similar initiative called "BwMessenger" last month: https://esut.de/en/2020/11/meldungen/24138/matrix-messenger. On the opposite end of the spectrum you've got Mozilla, who replaced their IRC network with open, federated Matrix and saw greater far greater community engagement as a result.

Now is an excellent time to join the team as we try to make a genuine challenge to centralised, walled garden messaging technology.

Our open roles:-

- Engineering Manager/Director, Web https://apply.workable.com/elementio/j/5BF802E8D7/

- Senior Web Developer https://apply.workable.com/elementio/j/39759B827A/

- iOS Developer https://apply.workable.com/elementio/j/3BB922A77E/

- Recruiter https://apply.workable.com/elementio/j/6B2F5B5847/

However, whatever your background, feel free to contact me via https://app.element.io on @neilj:matrix.org I am always keen to chat with engineers of all disciplines about the project.

Element.io / Matrix.org | REMOTE (EU timezones preferred, though not required)| Full-time Matrix is an open standard for decentralized secure communications. Matrix’s mission is to make messaging as open as email.

Our open roles:-

- Senior Web Developer, Element https://apply.workable.com/elementio/j/39759B827A/

- Engineering Manager/Director, Backend https://apply.workable.com/elementio/j/1ABB533BC5/

- Safety Engineer https://apply.workable.com/new-vector/j/1E79B2C579/

- Support Engineer https://apply.workable.com/elementio/j/2AFC6EA8F6/

However, whatever your background, feel free to contact me via https://app.element.io on @neilj:matrix.org I am always keen to chat with engineers of all disciplines about the project.

Matrix backs the IM needs of the entire French government [1] and more recently signed the largest single instant messaging deal ever to help German schools manage remote education[2], it is also used in mission critical situations such as emergency services response.

I think it is fair to say that Synapse is more than production ready. Admittedly it can be hard to admin out of the box for smaller scale instances and we intend to improve on that experience over the coming months. Alternatively, hosting options are available[3].

After a hiatus, Dendrite is under active development and making rapid progress. It is an alpha release at the moment and not yet ready for production settings, but a beta release is coming soon.

[1] https://matrix.org/blog/2018/04/26/matrix-and-riot-confirmed... [2] https://sifted.eu/articles/element-germany-deal/ [3] https://matrix.org/hosting/

Fwiw self hosting Element and a Matrix homeserver like Synapse provides a full Matrix feature set (including search, archiving and everything else). You don't lose out for self hosting.

It’s on by default for 1:1s _and_ private rooms. Though nothing in the protocol demands an encrypted room so unencrypted 1:1s, say, are entirely possible.

More related content here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23842179

Matrix is the protocol, Element is a client to access Matrix which it does so via a matrix homeserver (which then federates across the rest of the Matrix).

So Element is free to use, but there are a range of servers to choose from. The matrix.org server is free to use, though as the largest single instance on the public federation is run on a best effort basis.

Alternatives are to either host your own server, or have someone else do that for you. The payment plans that you are looking at reference Element Matrix Services (EMS) which is a SaaS offering allowing you to spin up your own server to be used by whoever you choose to give access to (friends/colleagues etc). The advantages being that you get grater control of your data and improved performance.

Using email as an analogy

Matrix = Email matrix.org / Matrix Hosted Services/ some other server = Fastmail/Gmail/Hotmail etc Element = Thunderbird

We are still in the review queue for Android. iOS folks can pick it up the Element release here https://apps.apple.com/app/vector/id1083446067

It will replace the current Riot Android App. So if you are an early adopter of RiotX you will need to download the main app.

One supports the other. Running high profile on premise solutions helps support the Matrix eco-system as a whole, especially if the installation federates.

The SaaS offering means that smaller organisations can also get come onboard without going to extra expense of a large scale self hosted installation.

Many organisations have made this switch (and of course we use Element at Element for running the org).

We do have support for org wide management in the form of the Communities feature, but we want to completely revamp it to make exactly what you are describing easier. It is the next big thing on the roadmap and I would expect it land in the next few months.

The new app is with Google, we're just waiting on them and it will be live asap.

Folks on iOS can pick it up here https://apps.apple.com/app/vector/id1083446067

Element is end to end encrypted by default for private rooms and 1:1 chats, but the Matrix protocol does not mandate the use of end to end encryption since it doesn't make sense for some use cases, particularly for public world readable rooms and IoT application.

There are organisations today that use Element without e2ee, though in practice we find that most see e2ee as a plus point - especially with the recent UX improvements (https://element.io/blog/e2e-encryption-by-default-cross-sign...).

Sorry you don't like the name, hopefully it will grow on you.

On SEO, quoting from the post itself "We’re obviously aware that Element is (once again) both a dictionary word and a mathematical term - but in practice, looking at search results for Element right now, the top hits are for dictionary sites(!) and the field is wide open. Conversely, in a virgin browser on VPN, Riot is the 4th hit on Google for Riot; second only to a certain games company. In other words, we’ve shown that we can successfully adopt dictionary words - and if you do find yourself lost searching in a maze of mathematics, just throw in the word ‘chat’ to get back on track."

So yes there is a big SEO job ahead of us, we don't take anything for granted, but see a viable path to getting a good ranking.